Too much taken on Direct Debit, still not refunded 6 weeks later

DocQuincy

I pay for some office space by Direct Debit and they took an extra payment for no reason after my lease renewed. I queried it with them and have been told several times it will be refunded but it is now 6+ weeks later and still nothing. I originally waited for the next payment a month later to see if they'd deduct it from that but they took the full amount.

What would you recommend I do in this instance? Does the DD guarantee mean I can get my bank to take the money back for me? Are there any potential issues for me in doing this? I understand money can be taken in error but shouldn't they have to return it a lot faster than this?

20SmthngSver

Ask your banking provider.

This is when DD doesn't work. They can take it when they like for what they like, and then it's a hassle to get it back, which is usually in the form of credit, not cash.

Can't you pay for office space by Standing Order? At least then you've got some control over it.

DocQuincy

Thanks for the fast reply.

I've been here for some time and it's always been DD and have never had an issue. I think it's done that way as there is an inflationary increase each year and it saves setting anything new up.

They can take it when they like for what they like

If I ask my bank to get it back presumably that is like a chargeback against a merchant. Seeing as there is such potential to abuse a Direct Debit, as you say, does a company not lose their ability to use them if too many people complain and request money back through their bank? I'm just curious.

eddddy

DocQuincy wrote: »

If I ask my bank to get it back presumably that is like a chargeback against a merchant. Seeing as there is such potential to abuse a Direct Debit, as you say, does a company not lose their ability to use them if too many people complain and request money back through their bank? I'm just curious.

The criteria for a refund under the direct debit guarantee is very different from the criteria for a debit/credit card chargeback.

The direct debit guarantee applies if a payment is taken which you have not been correctly notified about in advance.

• e.g. If he office space company takes a DD of £500 from your account, without telling you in advance, you can claim a refund under the DD guarantee.

• But, if for example, the office space company informs you that they will be taking a DD of £500, and then takes it - but you don't think you owe them £500 - that's not something that should be refunded under the DD guarantee.

That would be a contractual issue between you and the office space company.

DocQuincy

Thanks for the extra information as you covered a key aspect:

But, if for example, the office space company informs you that they will be taking a DD of £500, and then takes it - but you don't think you owe them £500 - that's not something that should be refunded under the DD guarantee.

They sent me an invoice of the incorrect amount first and I queried it with them — and they took it anyway. So, the company informed me but have, to date, taken no action to refund it. It looks like I'll have to keep pestering them. I don't think there's any malicious intent, it's just bad organisation on their part.

18cc

A couple of points..

first of all you have very strong rights under the direct debit guarantee and you should and can make a claim to the bank to refund the payment made in error mmediately

you should also have an account at the person supplying the office space whether this is online and you can log on a look at it or whether you can request by Paper it should show the payments in and the charges and you should see if your account is in credit because of the error

finally although you can make a direct debit claim and immediately get your money back you should be 100% certain that you have paid too much otherwise the refubd might put you in debit and you might be violating the terms of your lease

"if the originator or the bank/building society makes an error, the customer is guaranteed a full and immediate refund of the amount paid."

eddddy

18cc wrote: »

"if the originator or the bank/building society makes an error, the customer is guaranteed a full and immediate refund of the amount paid."

That's only one sentence in the direct debit guarantee.

You must read all the sentences together - the previous sentences explains what types of "error" is covered.

BACS operate the DD scheme, their website explains in a bit more detail:

If a Direct Debit payment has been taken which is not in accordance with the advance notice received i.e. more has been taken than the amount specified on the advance notice or the payment has been taken on the wrong date you are entitled to an immediate refund of the amount debited from your bank under the Direct Debit Guarantee.

....

* The Guarantee covers Direct Debit payments. It cannot be used to address contractual disputes between you and the billing organisation.​

Link: https://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectDebitExplained/Pages/Incorrectpayments.aspx

The OP seems to be agreeing that he/she received notice of the DD payment in advance (on an invoice).

So if the office space company shows that invoice to the bank, the DD refund may get reversed.

It sounds more like the OP has a contractual dispute with the office space company, and the DD guarantee doesn't help with that.

18cc

agreed they did receive an invoice but queried it with them ie did not accept it.

thus they are not allowed to take a dd for this amount otherwise to take it to extremes they could send an invoice for 5 million and then help themselves !

phillw

eddddy wrote: »

That would be a contractual issue between you and the office space company.

In this case the company taking the DD has admitted that they made a mistake, therefore it's not a contractual dispute.

I made a claim after I left outfox the market and they took a further Direct Debit even though I was in credit and it was to cover the period after I had left. They had informed me that they were going to take the money, they actually told me to do a DD indemnity to get the money back quicker. The bank went through a list of reasons in their drop down box for why I wanted a refund.

I would try to raise a DD indemnity, it's then up to the company to refuse. You either get your money back, or you know that you need to sue them. If they've taken money that they weren't supposed to, promised to refund it then frustrate your attempts to get it back then they have breached your contract.

In terms of downsides you will need to setup the DD again, because an indemnity claim will cancel the existing DD. It may also upset the company if they were lying about refunding and hoping you would give up if they kept you waiting. Depending on whether they are crooks or just inept then it will depend on how much you're worried about having your assets locked up in their office space when you get the money back you are owed.

Terry_Towelling

This isn't one of those slightly different payment arrangements is it whereby you are paying every 4 weeks rather than per calendar month? I know they've told you they are intending to refund (which sort of implies an error on their part) but four-weekly collections means you will have one month in the year when there are two collections.

When you first took out the lease, did you pay in advance or in arrears, or part way through the first month? I'm just trying to work out whether you may have paid in arrears for the first lease and are now paying in advance for the renewed lease.

DocQuincy

Thanks for all the input. To be clear:

• It's is a payment taken on a set day every month, i.e. twelve payments per year
• They raised an additional invoice for something I didn't owe them
• I queried it and they said the payment may be taken anyway but that I would be “credited”
• I said I am fine with the credit being either a refund or they knock if off the following month
• The extra money was taken
• I flagged it with them again and they said they'd look into it but did said my account was now in credit, i.e. they took too much
• I left it on the back burner and then thought I may as well wait for the follow payment to see if they adjust that accordingly
• That payment was just under a fortnight ago, i.e. about six weeks since they took the money

Even though it's not a huge amount I jyst want it back now so I can draw a line under it. I have been here for a few years and know them well enough to know they are not trying to keep the money. It's actual part of a large nationwide collection of offices and the problem lies in the fact that the Office Manager has to get their finance department to sort things in HQ and they (HQ) seem to be a bit incompetent. The manager is very apologetic about it.

So, I know I will get my money back, I am just trying to work out the fastest way to do it. I'll try contacting finance direct again I think before I do anything with the DD as I don't want to cause any ill will. If the next round of attempts fails I'll contact my bank.

Thanks again.