Letter Before Claim from BW Legal

joG123

HI, after a long quiet period (ticket issued in April 2015 by Armtrac Securities at Sennen beach - ticket purchased by driver (not named) and placed on windscreen but then not displayed when car checked - fluttering ticket). Advice from this forum was followed at the time and after threatening letters and a breach of personal information by a debt collector everything went quiet in September 2015.

Unfortunately I have now been issued with a letter before claim by BW Legal and I have to respond to the LBC by 14th June.

Following advice on this and other forums I have made SAR requests to the PC and the debt collector. BW Legal were informed but refused to allow a delay in the case. Replies have been received but they have provided only the original ticket and digital images. I have written again to ask for a copy of the notice to keeper (which was sent after 56 days) and all further correspondence but have not received any reply.

So I have drafted a letter based on my understanding of the newbies thread - if I posted it here, would anyone be able to review it before I send it?

Thanks

Quentin

You can do (, though you don't have to respond - especially don't complete any of their forms)

Are you sure it's a LBC? You should have been given 30 days to pay.

joG123

Definitely a letter before claim as they provided the form based on the pre-action protocol. Response expected by 14th June.

This is my response, probably too wordy!

Dear Sir or Madam
Letter of Claim dated XXXX

I am writing to acknowledge receipt of the above letter. As mentioned in the email dated XXXX you should already be aware that this claim is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

As has been explained in previous correspondence with your Client, Armtrac Securities, the VRN records from the PDT machine will show that a ticket for the registered vehicle was purchased at XXXX and was valid until XXXX. The ID for this ticket is XXXX. A copy of this ticket is available.

Refusal to accept the copy of the ticket as proof of payment and evidence of validity along with your Client’s continued pursuit of this contested charge, appears to be a case of unjust enrichment over and above the tariff paid.

I have read the Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims that you directed me to in your letter. Unfortunately I do not believe that your letter complies with section 3 of the Pre Action Protocol as it does not provide sufficient information regarding you and your Client’s claim nor does it consider a form of Alternative Dispute Resolution.

For example, your letter of claim suggests that the Client’s entitlement to the total Debt Recovery Costs is expressed in the Terms and Conditions which were accepted upon entering the Site. You have not provided the referred to Terms and Conditions.

I would ask that you provide all essential documents that you intend to rely on in this claim, this should include but is not limited to:
a copy of the alleged contract with the landowner under which your Client asserts authority to bring a claim against me
a copy of the alleged contract with the driver
a plan showing where the signs were displayed
details of the signs displayed, including the size of the signs
whether your Client is pursuing me as Registered Keeper or driver of the vehicle

As I declined to name the driver when I received the notice to keeper my assumption would be that this case is brought against the Registered Keeper.

The original Notice to Keeper failed to meet the obligations of Schedule 4 of the POFA Act 2012. It was issued after 59 days, more than 56 days following the issue of a parking charge notice on the windscreen. If you and your Client insist on pursuing this claim against the Registered Keeper, I will ask the court to strike out the claim as having no cause of action against the Registered Keeper.

I am pleased to see that you and your client wish to work on a solution that does not involve court proceedings. It was not clear why your Client, an accredited member of the IPC, did not offer the opportunity to appeal in their original notice to keeper. By not doing so and then delaying further correspondence they removed the opportunity for appeal within the standard time limit to the IAS. Whilst the delayed correspondence referred to the option for a non standard appeal it and none of the previous paper work gave details of how to make such an appeal.

You have a duty to mitigate you and your Client’s losses and not to incur additional losses unnecessarily. To help you with this, I am willing to have this dispute decided by appeal to a relevant parking body to avoid burdening the court with this matter, and I would invite you and your Client to reconsider your position and provide details of a non standard appeal to the IAS. Should you refuse my invitation to use ADR and proceed to court, I will draw the court's attention to you and your Client’s failure to comply with Para 8 of the Practice Direction, concerning ADR. If you continue to refuse to consider an appeal to IAS as an appropriate form of ADR, then in the extremely unlikely event that I lose the case, I will ask the court to refuse any order that I pay your Client’s court or solicitor's costs as, under the terms of the Practice Direction, this matter could and should have been dealt with by ADR.

In addition, the aggressive business practice of your Client and the companies employed by them which included the unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

Your Client passed on collection of the disputed debt to XXXX who are a member of the BPA. XXXX gave no option for appeal or mediation either and instead threatened bankruptcy and pursued me both by letter and by telephone. No telephone number has ever been given to anybody regarding this disputed debt. When asked how they had got the phone number they said it was through a Freedom of Information Request. When this was followed up XXXX were evasive and refused to say from whom they had received the telephone number. A follow up Subject Access Request Letter in September 2015 was ignored. It was assumed that this was because your Client and the company they had employed had seen sense and decided to no longer pursue this alleged debt. Unfortunately that is no longer the case so should your Client be persuaded to continue with this claim I will have to consider a counterclaim for harassment, breach of the DPA (as was) and request a full costs recovery order as any action.

I am now seeking advice with regard to compiling my formal Response as required by the Practice Direction.

I take this opportunity to remind you that your company must comply with ALL steps in the Practice Direction BEFORE starting court proceedings.

Please do me the courtesy of reading and replying to this letter and providing the requested information. If you send me a generic template letter which does not address my requests for information then I will seek the advice of the courts for non-compliance with the Practice Direction and I will seek further advice regarding a counter claim.

joG123

Anyone? Is the letter too long? Should I save it for the defence? I see @coupon-mad posted an lbc response to BW on Monday but I can't find it!!!

beamerguy

Unfortunately I have now been issued with a letter before claim by BW Legal and I have to respond to the LBC by 14th June.

When was the LBC dated please

The_Deep

Have you read these?

https://www.bing.com/search?q=fluttering+ticket+prankster&form=EDGEAR&qs=PF&cvid=c98e872b3ab349ab8a89a4064f92151e&cc=GB&setlang=en-GB&elv=AY3%21uAY7tbNNZGZ2yiGNjfNqunZBiq*D1TE0psSl3QhVfnlfzDlB7Fx78ghZNgBrI*QzKQiB2ZmE0cb0xjrcODSidtaMCkq48IV7J*yN%21rUI&PC=ACTS

joG123

Date of the letter was 10th May

beamerguy

joG123 wrote: »

Date of the letter was 10th May

OK, just wanted to check it was a real LBC.

It is a long letter with the main point being that you paid and can prove this. Everything you say is correct but knowing the way that BWLegal operate, or shall we say, their incompetence in complying to the law, IE the PaP, THEY WILL IGNORE YOU.

Did a debt collector letter really say they will bankrupt you ????
A judge would be very interested in this

So, you paid and can prove it, that can only mean that the PPC stole your money. What can BWLegal say to that ???? You are at liberty to request a judge to ask the same question

The fake add-on which BWL make numerous claims as to why ?

The fact is that BWLegal are ....
In addition to the 'parking charge', the Claimant's legal representatives, BWLegal, have artificially inflated the value of the Claim by adding costs of £60 which has not actually been incurred by the Claimant, and which are artificially invented figures in an attempt to circumvent the Small Claims costs rules using double recovery. >>>> thanks to bargepole

This, you will bring to the attention of the court

Confirm to BWL that once you have won any case, you will ask the judge for costs.

In my opinion, you should keep this short and sweet with the facts

BWLegal take little notice of the facts which results in them being whooped in court

joG123

Thanks slightly shorter attached - just a quick check I haven't said anything out of order. Oh and yes, the debt collecting company threatened:
- apply for a court order against my earnings
- seize certain of my assets and have them sold in execution
- seek an order against me which would attach all monies that may be due to me from other sources
- obtain a court order for my financial examination
- take action to have me declared bankrupt


Dear Sir or Madam
Letter of Claim dated XXXX


I am writing to acknowledge receipt of the above letter. As mentioned in the email dated XXXX you should already be aware that this claim is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

I am now seeking advice with regard to compiling my formal Response as required by the Practice Direction.

As has been explained in previous correspondence with your Client, Armtrac Securities, the VRN records from the PDT machine will show that a ticket for the registered vehicle was purchased at XXXX and was valid until XXXX. The ID for this ticket is XXXX. A copy of this ticket is available.

Refusal to accept the copy of the ticket as proof of payment and evidence of validity along with your Client’s continued pursuit of this contested charge, appears to be a case of unjust enrichment over and above the tariff paid.

In addition to the 'parking charge', you have artificially inflated the value of the Claim by adding costs of £60 which have not actually been incurred by your Client, and which are artificially invented figures in an attempt to circumvent the Small Claims costs rules using double recovery. I will bring this to the attention of the court.

The aggressive business practice of your Client and the companies employed by them which included the unwarranted threat of having me declared bankrupt for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, have caused significant distress to me.

Finally, I do not believe that your letter complies with section 3 of the Pre Action Protocol as it does not provide sufficient information regarding you and your Client’s claim nor does it consider a form of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR). I would ask that in line with the Pre Action Protocol you provide all essential documents that you intend to rely on in this claim and I take this opportunity to remind you that your company must comply with ALL steps in the Practice Direction BEFORE starting court proceedings.

Under the terms of the Practice Direction, this matter could and should have been dealt with by ADR. If your Client is minded to continue with this claim. I will ask the court to seek a full costs recovery order and I will consider a counterclaim for harassment, breach of the DPA (as was). In the unlikely event that I lose I will ask the court to refuse any order that I pay your Client’s court or solicitor's costs.

Please do me the courtesy of reading and replying to this letter and providing the requested information.

Quentin

Do expect a claim from the court to follow in due course


(A non standard appeal to the IAS would have been a total waste of your money!)

Coupon-mad

Oh and yes, the debt collecting company threatened:
- apply for a court order against my earnings
- seize certain of my assets and have them sold in execution
- seek an order against me which would attach all monies that may be due to me from other sources
- obtain a court order for my financial examination
- take action to have me declared bankrupt

Astonishing that this is not illegal, as none of it is going to happen.