State Pension forecast (individual request)

[Deleted User]

Hello, With regards the recent errors re State Pension forecasts, could anyone please help to clarify the following case.
Female aged 62, retired with small company pension, no state benefits. Online forecast has been checked for past 3 years and always shows full entitlement.Latest online figures as follows:
£ 168.60 is the most you can get (cannot improve)
Nat/Ins record: 41 full yrs
5yrs did not contribute enough(2011-2014, 2017)
4 yrs still to pay.
There is no other figures or info re contracted out , cope etc.
During the course of the 46yrs employment with several companies, many yrs were contracted in /out and the final 6 yrs were LGPS scheme.
I have no problem with other pensions etc, I wish to know if the above full SP forecast is correct. Awaiting written reply from helpline.
Regards

molerat

I would be concerned if there is no contracted out service / COPE shown especially with LGPS service prior to 2016. Is there no mention of contracted out service 3/4 down the front page ?

You’ve been in a contracted-out pension scheme

Linton

It is impossible for us to say whether the numbers are exactly right but they are certainly not surprising. The problem is that whilst you were contracted in prior to April 2016 you would have received SERPS/S2P/ASP which was an addition to the then basic rate. The amounts depend on the date as the scheme changed several times and on your then income. So without a lot more data than you probably have on your employment history and details of which scheme was in force at the time no-one except DWP could possibly make the calculation.



This SERPs etc could well have exceeded the effect of a possible reduction from being contracted out. Given your age you could have accrued sufficient by April 2016 or, more likely I think, soon after to meet the requirement for the full state pension.

[Deleted User]

Hello again, Thanks for the replies. I have rechecked the forecast statement and there is definitely no mention of contracted in/out on either the forecast page or the Nat/Ins record page.
I have spoken to the futures dept but the operative continually stated I would receive company pensions but ignored my query re full entitlement. I receive 3 minute company pensions and also a small Lgps one, I fully understand that aspect.Hence my request for written response. Thanks again for input.
Regards

drumtochty

[FONT=&quot]If you have been contracted out for a number of years there will be a mention of it in your state pension statement, if you click on that highlight on that part of your statement, it will open with a new page with the value of the COPE that has already be removed and the total pension advised which is with the COPE removed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If you read the recent statement from the DWP, it basically says that a number people have state pension statements where the number of years contracted out is wrong, usually they have not included all the contracted out years.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The DWP are inferring that they will only double check the value of your state pension a month or so before your actual state pension age.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Let's say in your case the DWP have missed 5 years when you were contracted out. At 2016 that reduction would be say £10 per week if you were earning below about £15k a year deflated to the actual time you were actually contracted out to up to £4 a week if during that time you were earning say £40k a year or what £40k a year was worth at the time you were contracted out.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have a case of a lady who has an online pension statement in her personal tax account that advises the full £168 pounds a week. I think that is about £10 to £12 a week too high due to 10 years contracted out but the statement advises the COPE is only £9.60 a week rather than £20 a week that I estimate.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have a recent paper statement for her that also advised £168 a week. Therefore not an issue with the online statement.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]She is due to receive a letter next week as that will be 4 weeks before her state pension starts. I hope I'm wrong and that will still advise £168 a week. I will post an update to advise what the final value turns out to be.[/FONT]

[Deleted User]

drumtochty, I have checked and double checked my online statement. There is no mention of contracted in/ out or cope. There is no option to highlight anything apart from Nat Ins record. Again no mention!
My spouses statement quite clearly offers the full information and he has voluntarily paid the correct missing years NI ( with help from this board).
I do not have a copy of my employment record since I started work at 15 yrs old and definitely not contracted out/ in info.
Thanks for input.
regards

[Deleted User]

fjh,
Please start your own thread for information, otherwise all replies and questions become impossible to follow. I realise the calculations are confusing and that is the reason I started an individual
request thread. Apologies if I appear rude.
Regards

xylophone

4 yrs still to pay.

Whether or not you had reached full entitlement, if working and earning the appropriate amount, you would have to pay NI up to your State Pension Age.

At 6/4/ 16, two calculations should have been done:-

Old Rules

NI years/30 x £119.30 + (Additional State Pension - Deduction for Contracting Out). See p 4 and 5 of link below

New Rules

(NI years/35 x £155.65) - Contracted Out Pension Equivalent (Rebate Derived Amount). See p4 and 5 of link below.

The higher of the two was your starting amount.

The SA might have been the same as/more than/less than £155.65.
If the same, then you couldn't improve the amount by contributions or credits - it would only increase each year under (at the moment), triple lock.

If more than, you couldn't improve the amount - up to the NSP amount would be indexed under the triple lock and the balance by CPI.

If less than, improvement up to full NSP might have been possible whether by contributions or credits.

Have a look at this

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/447195/new-state-pension--effect-of-being-contracted-out.pdf

It is perfectly possible that the amount of additional state pension earned over your career was high enough to cancel out any deduction.

However, to have no mention of contracted out service at all (at least in respect of LGPS), is odd.

See

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75896175#Comment_75896175


and post 19 and 22 here. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6009662/warning-double-check-state-pension-forecasts-after-govt-admits-significant-errors-mse-news&page=2

Do let us know the answer you receive from DWP.

drumtochty

[FONT=&quot]OK, I have done some quick and dirty numbers for you rangersfc but they are a wild guess!!!!!!!!!!!!!.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]SERPS or the Second State Pension started April 1978 and ended April 2016.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I assume you stopped work spring 2017 or near then.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Therefore, you had one year 2016 2017 where at todays rate you would get about 4.82 a week state pension. £168.60/35.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]At April 2016 you had 40 years NI contributions that today give you a basic state pension of £129.60.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Therefore, out of you £168.60 a week forecast you have a basic £134.42 pension in the pot as above.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I am assuming you were not a large earner and at todays rate you were earning less than about £16k a year over that time.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I assume no graduated pensions or less than £1 from before April 1978.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]From April 1978 to April 2016 you have a total of 34 national insurance credits that if you were contracted in would earn you about £2 a week state pension. You had 6 years NI credits prior to April 1978.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As you now have £168.60 state pension forecast and you have a basic £134.40 in the pot as explained above.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Where did the further £34.20 come from? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I reckon that is covered by 17 years of contracted in SSP or SERPS. If my wild guesses are anywhere near correct and they are a wild guess, that would suggest during that time you were contracted out for around 17 or half of the 34 years when SERPS and SSP operated.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I'm sure for any normal person this sounds a clear as mud.[/FONT]

drumtochty

rangersfc wrote: »

drumtochty, .
I do not have a copy of my employment record since I started work at 15 yrs old and definitely not contracted out/ in info.
Thanks for input.
regards

No you started work at 16 did you not.

[Deleted User]

xylophone, thanks for the reply and information inc links. It appears that I have hit a brick wall with progress until I produce all info re contracted out/in. I do not have this info, therefore I am at the mercy of Pensions Futures Dept to produce the info required in the written reply. I will give update when received.During our phone conversation the operative had no response re missing info.
regards