Beneficial Interest

maccin123

Hello,

This is my first post, I hope someone can help.

I recently moved into a house and there is a piece of land at the side that is over grown above head height. After doing some research I found out that the land was owned by 3 parties. The legal title/ownership is in the husband and wife name (now divorced). However the beneficial interest (the husbands half) is with the insolvency service.

I first contacted the insolvency service about them clearing the land as it is blocking my view and encroaching onto my garden. They pointed me in the direction of the wife. She was not willing to clear the land due to the cost of doing so, but would sell the land to me. I did not originally have any interest in purchasing the land, however, I thought why not?

I agreed a figure with the wife and the insolvency service only to be told at the last minute that I would still need the husbands signature to be the legal owner of the land, even though it was repossessed from him several years ago.

I tried several times to contact the husband and he eventually got back to me with a fairly aggressive text message, saying he would never assist, even for money as he would not help his ex wife or the insolvency service for obvious bitter reasons.

So now I am left in a situation whereby I could buy the beneficial interest and potentially the wifes half. However, the husband would still remain on the title.

Is this right?

I was thinking I could purchase the beneficially interest, clear and maintain the land. Then in 12 years claim title ownership via adverse possession. Is this an option?

Is there anything I can do to force the husband to cooperate?

If I have beneficial interest can I stop the legal owners from accessing the land? Who has more rights to the land? legal or beneficial owners?

Basically the only thing stopping me purchasing the land is the husband who on my understanding doesnt actually have any rights to the land.

Any help would be great!

Thanks

00ec25

there are times to save money by asking for free advice on the internet, and there are times to spend wisely.

Paying for legal advice would be wise in this case. Why do you think the beneficial ownership has been removed but the legal ownership was not?

getmore4less

I would ask a property solicitor how much it would cost to go to court to get the judge to sign over the legal ownership.

As there is no? dispute over the beneficial interest and the Hubby may not even contest it(due to cost) it might not be that expensive.


It would appear the insolvency service did not think it was worth selling maybe it would not cover their additional costs.

What's it worth?

silvercar

I am not a legal expert.

The legal title/ownership is in the husband and wife name (now divorced). However the beneficial interest (the husbands half) is with the insolvency service.

Does the wife still live in the property? When was husband's bankruptcy?

The insolvency service usually try to get hold of their money within 3 years of the bankruptcy, so unless there was a prior divorce with financial settlement, the IS should make moves on this within a couple of years.

If the IS isn't going to take any action (because the benefit to them will be lost in costs, so they are prepared to sit and wait), then you will need to do the running.

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Is this land adjoining the wife's house, or is it a random piece of land?

Assuming it is part of a garden, then any sale will also need a mortgage lender's consent, if there is one.

I would still need the husbands signature to be the legal owner of the land, even though it was repossessed from him several years ago.

It wasn't repossessed from him, the IS may have the beneficial interest, but that isn't a repossession. He still has rights to it.

So now I am left in a situation whereby I could buy the beneficial interest and potentially the wifes half. However, the husband would still remain on the title.

Non-starter. The husband owns half of all of it, you can't become a joint owner with someone who doesn't want that to happen. I doubt you could buy out the beneficial interest that easily.

I was thinking I could purchase the beneficially interest, clear and maintain the land. Then in 12 years claim title ownership via adverse possession. Is this an option?

Another non-starter. You know who the owner is, they have said they won't sell. You can't claim adverse possession. In any case, do you think the wife won't notice if you fence it off and call it your own?

If I have beneficial interest can I stop the legal owners from accessing the land? Who has more rights to the land? legal or beneficial owners?

The legal owners. Beneficial interest doesn't stop access. Think of all the bankruptcy cases where the Insolvency Service has registered the BI but haven't taken the property. BI registers that the proceeds of sale are due elsewhere and not to the owners. Everything else (maintenance/ possession/ council tax) remains with the owners.

The easiest would be to get written consent from the wife for you to clear the land at your cost. Forget any ownership issues, as that wasn't your original intention.

maccin123

Thank you for the replies.

I have sort legal advice from 2 separate solicitors who I have used for years and they have both said that they would want a quite a bit of money to look into it further and with no real guarantee of direction before they look into it. Neither solicitor has dealt with this before and I have called a few more who are meant to specialise and they do not have a clear idea. In short I would need to pay for a solicitor to learn about the case with no guarantee of expertise. I was hoping someone has come across this before.

To confirm, this piece of over grown land, is only accessible and visible from my house, the owners (husband and wife) would have to walk down my drive way and over my back garden to get to it. So they can never legally access it anyway, because I would never let them and I have gates. The husband and wife lived in my house 10 years ago and from what I can see, when the house was sold after the husband went bankrupt, they did not sell the house with the land at the side. Until I made them aware, I dont think they even knew they still owned the land, so I have shot myself in the foot by trying to do the right thing.

With regards to "would they notice if I used the land". The answer is no. They would not be able to see from the road. I guess they could get a drone out and fly it over my house haha. But they just wont do that.

It was due to be a simple exchange. But the husband has bitterness towards his ex wife and doesnt want her to get anything for the land. He sees it as he is punishing her, but In reality all he is doing is causing me issues not his ex wife.

I would also like to make it clear, the land is not usable as a garden and it is green belt so can never be built on. I dont really want to own it, I just want it cleared or at least maintained as it blocks my views and has vermin living in it. Purchasing it just seemed to be the only way to resolve this. If I spend a lot of money on the land either via legal advice or purchasing the land then I feel I am paying for nothing.

I know the insolvency service own the beneficial interest in the land because they told me. From what I have read on the internet, the beneficial interest gives you the rights to use and proceeds from the land. And my solicitors have confirmed that the husband and wife still have legal ownership.

But again all this is conflicting and solicitors dont seem to have the knowledge either, or I am not confident in their knowledge anyway.

AdrianC

maccin123 wrote: »

To confirm, this piece of over grown land, is only accessible and visible from my house, the owners (husband and wife) would have to walk down my drive way and over my back garden to get to it. So they can never legally access it anyway, because I would never let them and I have gates.

Are you 100% sure there's no RoW for them to access it?

I would also like to make it clear, the land is not usable as a garden and it is green belt so can never be built on. I dont really want to own it, I just want it cleared or at least maintained as it blocks my views and has vermin living in it. Purchasing it just seemed to be the only way to resolve this.

If you own it, you've got to get out there with a strimmer or whatever.
So... just get out there with a strimmer or whatever...

There's no other benefit to ownership. Just do it.

AnotherJoe

What Adrian said, just get out there with a brush cutter, start using it, and save your money.

maccin123

Yes I am 100% sure they have no access to it.

The land is probably half an acre and is so overgrown it would be 20 men with 20 strimmers to do it in any reasonable amount of time. Or need heavy duty machinery to clear the land. Once this is done I would then be left with so much waist I would need to operate a fire for weeks, do over 1000 tip runs or pay for a company to take it away.

Basically I am also not keen on spending a lot of time and money to clear the site if I do not own it. I would also need to do this every year.

AdrianC

It's only half an acre... Don't be melodramatic!

Day or three of just you, with some decent powertools and elbow-grease in there, and you'll have it cleared. Go through with a billhook first-off just to get your bearings, then a brushcutter death-star blade on a petrol strimmer for the smaller stuff, then chainsaw for anything too big for that. Burn any brash and smaller stuff, but stack all the bigger wood and leave it to rot for wildlife habitat.

Let a few of the native broadleaf saplings survive to mature - choose carefully - then a bit of benign neglect, especially during spring and the first half of summer, leaving the mowing until after all the wildflowers have seeded, and you'll find you've got something very pleasant indeed within a year or five.

Just... please... don't try to turn it into some godawful bland extension of a snooker table lawn... Love it for what it is, a wild space, and help it achieve that.

Let's see some "before" pics...

maccin123

Adrian, trust me I am far from lazy, I have several 24 hour business which dont permit me to have a clear few days off at a time to do what you suggest. Maybe half an acre is an underestimate and it is an odd shape.

Ultimately thanks for the advice but I would like to own it if I am putting in this effort to maintain it.

SuperHan

But you don't want to buy it. Buying it will be more expensive than getting the land under control and not buying it. Only you will benefit from it.


Also, as someone who works in professional services, I wouldn't expect a solicitor to know the answer offhand (and even if they did, they wouldn't give you the answer without you paying). You pay them for their expertise in the law and ability to interpret legislation and find relevant case law. You ask them the question, they use their expertise to research, then come back with an answer. You pay for that time. If they have expertise in land law, then that is what you need. They don't particularly need experience of your specific case.


I'm asked questions on a daily basis that I am qualified to research and then answer. Joe Bloggs on the street couldn't research as proficiently as I do, as I know of all the various areas of law that might apply to the question and can read all of these through the lens of my client's situation. I wouldn't do this unless I was being paid to do so, and I certainly wouldn't put my job (and firm) on the line by giving you an indication of success before I had done the research.


You need to pay a solicitor to get a proper answer. Or you go ahead and fix the land without buying it. They are ultimately your options.