Commuter car (primarily motorway) - up to c. £20k

System

DrEskimo wrote: »

To suggest other EVs, like the Zoe don't is false. All Renault Zoe's have thermal management:

I never said they didn't have TMS. I said that Zoe's are going to be owned by mums who'll typically follow the usage pattern of the person in the second link I posted, doing very little mileage between charges and recharging to 100% every time which will kill a battery prematurely.

DrEskimo

Tarambor wrote: »

I never said they didn't have TMS.

Oh apologies. It was really in response to your claim that 'Little to no thermal management which is the route that most of the low cost "normal" EVs are taking", which I believe to be false. AFAIK, the Gen 1 Nissan Leaf is the only EV to not have TMS. So unless you are happy to retract that statement, perhaps you can qualify it with some examples other than the Gen 1 Leaf?

Tarambor wrote: »

I said that Zoe's are going to be owned by mums who'll typically follow the usage pattern of the person in the second link I posted, doing very little mileage between charges and recharging to 100% every time which will kill a battery prematurely.

Your point requires further clarity. What do you mean 'will kill a battery' and when you say prematurely, how much sooner? There's obviously a massive difference between this behaviour causing complete failure of the batteries within a few years, compared to it causing 1-2% additional degradation over a 10/20year period....?

There is plenty of evidence that frequent charging cycles from low SoC to 100% can degrade the battery quicker relative to a higher SoC to just 90%, but of course let's not forget that the Battery Management System (BMS) does not allow EV's to charge the batteries to 100%. As already mentioned, the usable capacity is not the same as the actual battery capacity. All EV's 'lock' away a % of the actual battery pack, so 100% reported on the car systems is actually typically 85-90% of the actual full battery capacity.

There is diminishing advantages in the longevity of cells by charging to 90% each time, to say 80% each time. So I would say your claim that "recharging to 100% every time which will kill a battery prematurely" may technically be true (if your definition of 'kill a battery' means some degree of degradation), however the actual real world effect is very small, and would amount to minor losses in SoH over many many years.

Besides, I hardly think you can take a single use case of a Nissan Leaf Gen 1 with high degradation, which is known to have battery degradation issues due to lack of TMS and the specific cell chemistry, and then not only conclude that the charging behaviour was the single biggest cause with no analysis of history of the vehicles use, but then also extrapolate that questionable conclusion to all other EV's which have vastly different management systems, charging capacities and cell chemistry.

By the way, I take your absence of a reply to the revised cost analysis as an indication that you do agree that EV's can save money, and that my claim was not 'bogus'?