Help! PPC threatening court action!

Dragonfly22

Hi everyone, we are in a bit of a difficult situation and hoping there is someone who might be able to help.

The keeper received a NTK through the post from Euro Parking Services stating the driver had parked without displaying a valid ticket in a pay and display car park. It invited the keeper to pay the parking charge of £100 which would be reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days, or to notify them of the name of the driver. A few days prior to this the driver had entered this car park as they had done a few times before and intended to park there and pay for their ticket as usual, however, on this particular occasion when they tried to pay for the ticket the machine displayed an out of order message. They even attempted to insert coins into the machine but the coin area had closed up making it impossible to put a coin through it thereby confirming it was definitely out of order. There were no other machines in the car park.


The keeper then received the NTK (the same one referred to above) which was dated three days after the driver had parked there. The keeper conducted some research online and found EPS were a member of the IPC and that any attempts to appeal it would be futile so ignored it as well as the final reminder. The keeper thought it absurd that the PPC would even attempt to charge them when their machine was clearly out of order making it unable for the driver to comply with payment. However, now the keeper has received a letter before court action stating they would commence legal proceedings if they do not pay the now increased sum of £160 within 14 days. The keeper does not have this kind of money to pay and is determined to defend this if they do decide to take it to court. Can someone please advise as to what the keeper should be doing at this stage? I have looked at the newbies thread and read that a Letter Before Claim should be replied to but this is a Letter before Court Action which I am not sure if it is the same thing. It requires the full amount to be paid within 14 days and there are no accompanying forms so I am right in assuming this is a LBA which I should ignore until the real LBC comes through? Or should I formulate some kind of response?


Another issue is that the keeper has received two further NTK’s from the same PPC for two other occasions which again are a result of faulty machines which the driver has photographic evidence of. The difference with these NTK’s is that there was a windscreen PCN. For one PCN, the last letter received was a final reminder and for the other one only the NTK has been sent through so far but this was dated more than two months after the initial PCN on the windscreen. Is there anything the keeper can do in response to these aswell? It seems they are too late to appeal any of them. Also, will the keeper be taken to court for each of the PCN’s and will each one have to be defended separately if it comes to it?


Thanks in advance and apologies for the long read.

Fruitcake

The advice to ignore a PCN has not been given here since the law changed in 2012.

You need to respond to the LBC as per the guide to court written by bargepole you will find in post 2 of the NEWBIES. However, if it mentions 14 days it is not a LBC and can be ignored. In that case, send the appeal template from post 1 of the NEWBIES.
A real LBC/LBCA will give you 30 days to pay and must be responded to.

Appeal all the other PCNs using the template in blue from post 1 of the NEWBIES. Any that are out of time with regards to the PoFA timescales, you can add a one liner that the keeper is not liable and therefore they should pursue only the driver, who will not be named.

Redx

its a debt letter due to the 14 days and no financial forms and no 30 days compliance notice, so its not an LBA (LBC , OR LoC or LBCCC , all the same thing)

so IGNORE even further, but email a SAR from the keeper to the PPC DPO with a scan or pic of the V5C as proof of ID and get all the data and photos etc on this matter

also the keeper should try for a landowner or MA cancellation on any and all pcn,s

if these were raised separately in court claims, the keeper would be asking the local court (judge) to consolidate them into one claim

any appeal was futile but should have been made to the PPC , regardless, using the blue text template, after that and now its IGNORE until the MCOL arrives, but SAR and landowner complaint in the meantime, not revealing who was driving , the royal "we" will do


an LBC is not like a debt letter , different timeframes and rules

Coupon-mad

I have looked at the newbies thread and read that a Letter Before Claim should be replied to but this is a Letter before Court Action which I am not sure if it is the same thing. It requires the full amount to be paid within 14 days and there are no accompanying forms

It's not a LBC but you will get one soon, so get ahead of the game by emailing a SAR to the parking firm to see their hand, which will help when it comes to your defence this Summer.

A few days prior to this the driver had entered this car park as they had done a few times before and intended to park there and pay for their ticket as usual, however, on this particular occasion when they tried to pay for the ticket the machine displayed an out of order message. They even attempted to insert coins into the machine but the coin area had closed up making it impossible to put a coin through it thereby confirming it was definitely out of order. There were no other machines in the car park.

You have a case.

Search the forum for broken PDT machine defence and read some done already.

Dragonfly22

Thank you for your prompt reply Fruitcake.

Is the guide you are referring to titled 'Court Claim Procedure?' If so, I will follow this once the LBC comes through.
In regards to the other PCN's I am not sure if I am able to appeal them as it says on the back 'at the time that the charge was incurred, a Notice to Driver was affixed to the vehicle, this offered the driver the ability to appeal within 21 days..this opportunity has now lapsed.' Do you know if I am still able to appeal?

beamerguy

Frustration of contract

Part of the terms was that you would pay to park.
There machine failed, not your problem

Could these failed machines, many around, be a nice way for Euro to scam motorists for £100

Dragonfly22

Redx wrote: »

also the keeper should try for a landowner or MA cancellation on any and all pcn,s

Thank you for your reply Redx. How would I go about contacting the landowner- as in, how would I find out who the landowner is? Also, what do you mean by 'MA cancellation?'

Dragonfly22

Coupon-mad wrote: »

It's not a LBC but you will get one soon, so get ahead of the game by emailing a SAR to the parking firm to see their hand, which will help when it comes to your defence this Summer.

Thank you for replying Coupon Mad.

I have found the relevant email address on their website and will be getting on to a SAR now.

Fruitcake

Dragonfly22 wrote: »

Thank you for your prompt reply Fruitcake.

Is the guide you are referring to titled 'Court Claim Procedure?' If so, I will follow this once the LBC comes through.
In regards to the other PCN's I am not sure if I am able to appeal them as it says on the back 'at the time that the charge was incurred, a Notice to Driver was affixed to the vehicle, this offered the driver the ability to appeal within 21 days..this opportunity has now lapsed.' Do you know if I am still able to appeal?

The guide to court was written by bargepole. It is a step by step guide from LBC to the court date.

The keeper should appeal the PCNs, and add a one liner as I already mentioned if there are any PoFA failures. The driver does nothing.

Fruitcake

Dragonfly22 wrote: »

Thank you for your reply Redx. How would I go about contacting the landowner- as in, how would I find out who the landowner is? Also, what do you mean by 'MA cancellation?'

It depends on where the car park was situated. Was it at a hospital, a supermarket, a retail outlet, a business park, a railway station, a residential car park?

Do an internet search, or pay a small fee to the land registry. The latter is very useful in court.

MA = Management Agent, applicable in residential parking cases.

Redx

Dragonfly22 wrote: »

Thank you for your reply Redx. How would I go about contacting the landowner- as in, how would I find out who the landowner is? Also, what do you mean by 'MA cancellation?'

google them , or use the Land Registry if google fails (sometimes google gives results for others who have the same or similar situation , that may have done the detective work for you , so be a Thomas Magnum

MA is Managing Agent (if there is one) , so any or all of the people who contracted the PPC, the PPC didnt just rock up and start operating on their own volition