Northern by Arriva Parking Notice

wimboosh

Hi,
I have looked through a few different boards regarding byelaw parking notices however I don't think I have found one which applies to this current case (more than happy to be proven wrong!).
The driver of the PN'd car parks in the same station car park every day, the station does have small signs dotted around talking about byelaws and conditions of parking (the usual Northern Rail car park signs). The car park is free but quite small so it fills up very quickly, this results in a numerous cars parked on double yellows, on hashed yellows, sharing bays etc. Around 90% of the time the driver gets to the car park in time to get a legitimate space however when running late, the driver will park in a non-legitimate (but certainly non-obstructive place, the end of a row of cars in this case). This is the reason a fairly hefty £50 parking notice was issued in this case, reason being "Not parked in bay" and mentioning byelaw 14 etc...

I know this story has been posted a lot but this is where I get a bit confused.
The ticket was a NTD (i.e. a window ticket) issued by "Northern by Arriva" with correspondence to be sent to "Debt Recovery & Prosecutions" of Arriva Rail North Ltd.
The ticket states that if it is not paid within 28 days then the owners details will be requested from the DVLA however as far as I'm aware, they must be a member of the BPS or AOS in order to do this lawfully and after a bit of searching I cannot see whether they are or not. Also I have read that even if they do get the owners details and even if they use the POFA case to say the owner should pay that this doesn't hold water due to some loophole around station car parks?

I know that the driver is in the wrong however the penalty seems extremely steep and unfair given that there is plenty of room for more cars without causing obstruction.
If anyone could shed some light it would be greatly appreciated!

I've tried my best to not incriminate the driver and also apologies if this is actually the same as someone elses situation!

Cheers! :beer:

Quentin

DVLA don't know who owns vehicle

When dealing with a bye law ticket it's important never to reveal the owner!

wimboosh

Sorry, by owner I meant the registered keeper.
I believe that supposedly under POFA, the RK is liable if the driver is not named.

Quentin

Pofa can't be used in bye law cases

wimboosh

So do you mean that ANY ticket issued under byelaws can simply be ignored as they cannot legally get the keepers details (unless the keeper/driver reveals their identity)?
This seems like a loophole that would be rapidly patched, I would be apprehensive advising the driver to totally ignore the PN as it seems too good to be true!

The_Deep

Read these.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5974504/northern-by-arriva-parking-fine

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t64992.html

It all seems to be rather confusing.

Umkomaas

I would be apprehensive advising the driver to totally ignore the PN as it seems too good to be true!

What alternatives did you have in mind?

wimboosh

Replying to TheDeep (it won't let me post links or quotes as a newbie!)

I did see that MSE post however it didnt seem to be resolved and it also seemed to have stagnated.
With regards to the second link, it's a fairly old post relating to Northern Rail themselves issuing the PN and requesting payment, it also says that the ticket states that Northern Rail are BPA registered whereas mine does not (and my research suggests that neither Northern or Arriva the same). That article was also from before PoFA came in so I'm not sure if that changes things.

Agreed, it's confusing and it seems like a very grey area. If the fine had a reduced cost (like £20) if paid early then the driver would be happy to cough up as they were technically in the wrong, but £50 just seems unfair!

wimboosh

Replying to Umkomaas (it won't let me post links or quotes as a newbie!)

Either admit defeat and pay the extortionate charge or submit an appeal?
The driver would reeeeaally rather not have the matter go to court

Umkomaas

wimboosh wrote: »

Replying to Umkomaas (it won't let me post links or quotes as a newbie!)

Either admit defeat and pay the extortionate charge or submit an appeal?
The driver would reeeeaally rather not have the matter go to court

And the appeal would be on what grounds?

Has court action been threatened?

wimboosh

Replying to Umkomaas (it won't let me post links or quotes as a newbie!)

I'm not entirely sure (it's the first ticket I've had that seems unfair and sort of worth appealing) but I suppose it would be more to let them know that the driver (sort of) knows that they cannot get the owners information legally without breaching DPA as they are not registered with the BPA or AOS and that the PN is based on a bylaw so PoFA won't apply anyway?