Help requested re. response to claim form received for NCP overstay, BW Legal

BRRN

A claim form has been received dated 24/05/19 and I am looking for help in responding to it.

The history of the case is as follows:

NCP are alleging that on 07/11/2018 the driver overstayed the time that had been paid for in an NCP car park on private land. The driver thinks it is possible that they did overstay but can't say for sure.

04/01/2019
The driver received a PCN from NCP asking for £60 which was ignored (as per advice online although I realise this advice may be out of date now!) This letter has been mislaid but I do remember it had a photograph of the vehicle in the car park (but not parked in a space) and I don't think there was any indication of what time the vehicle is alleged to have entered or exited the car park). It is possible that 1 hour of parking was paid for but the driver spent a total of around 1 hour 20 minutes in the car park.

Then an undated letter (cannot remember when it was received but must have been Jan/Feb 2019) from Trace Debt Recovery regarding the charge - now asking for £160. This letter also ignored.

14/03/2019
Letter received from NCP stating the account had been passed to their legal team. Amount claimed is still £160.

Also on the same day a letter from BW Legal, again asking for £160. This was not a LBC or a LOC This letter also ignored.

01/04/2019
LOC received from BW Legal, this letter ignored.

24/05/2019
Court Claim from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton, filed by BW Legal. Particulars of claim say £167.92 now being claimed in respect of the PCN (£7.92 in interest). Court fee of £25 and "legal representative's costs" of £50 bring the total to pay to £242.92.

The driver is unable to remember how long the overstay was (if any) so I have sent an SAR to NCP requesting that they provide all the details of the alleged contravention and any evidence that indicates that the driver overstayed. I have also sent a letter to BW Legal informing them of the SAR that has been sent to their client and requesting that the matter be put on hold pending NCP's response. I imagine this won't be

My questions are:

* I intend to send the AoS back to the court today but do I have to send the defence form as well or can that wait until later?

* What else should I be doing at this stage? (other than preparing a defence which I am not sure how to do!)

* In the event it does go to court, what are the possible defences for the overstay? (I am hoping that the overstay is a short enough time that a "time driving around looking for a space" defence might work here, but if not what else can be used as a defence?)

I realise that ignoring all the letters so far and not appealing was probably not the best course of action, sorry!

Happy to provide copies of any of the letters in the driver's possession and/or the court claim if needed.

Thanks in advance.

Fruitcake

There is a guide to court written by bargepole that you will find in post 1 of the sticky thread for NEWBIES. This tells you what to send and when. The defence and witness statement come later so initially you only need to do the AoS.

BW are likely to say they cannot/will not put this on hold. Send an e-mail to BW Legal stating that, even though you dispute the debt, you are seeking debt advice and as such they must put proceeding on hold for 30 days.
Use those exact words.

Get pics of the site and signage.

What happened when you complained to the landowner?

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam?

BRRN

Thank you.

I have obtained pictures of the site and signage, it all looks pretty standard and the charges are laid out on the signs. This is NCP so I assume they are well covered in terms of their responsibilities there (maybe I'm wrong).

Their full terms and conditions are on site on a huge board in quite small text and are position by the entrance, but a driver could not spend the amount of time required to read them before entering the car park because they would be blocking the entrance and the entrance is directly off a bust road so they would also be blocking traffic on the road. In addition, the main sign is partially obscured by a big pole at the entrance to the car park (where the ANPR cameras are mounted!) making it difficult to read when entering but that seems like it would be a flimsy defence? Maybe not, I don't really know.

I have not complained to the landowner yet, again sorry, I know this should have been done but is it not too late for that now? If it's not too late, how can I find out who the landowner is and is there a template letter than I can work from? The car park in question is on a site where there are several different shops.

I have not yet complained to my MP either, sorry. I will do this as soon as possible. Due to the stage we are at with this I'm just keen to make sure I concentrate on doing the things which need to be done immediately, e.g. the AoS.

I've looked through the newbies thread, is the guide you're referring to the "guide to MCOL & how to acknowledge service"? That describes how to submit the AoS online, is that the recommended approach? If so, does that mean I do not have to send back the paper AoS?

Quentin

Follow the AOS walkthrough in the post you have read

KeithP

BRRN wrote: »

A claim form has been received dated 24/05/19 and I am looking for help in responding to it.

With a Claim Issue Date of 24th May, you have until Wednesday 12th June to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread. About ten minutes work - no thinking required.

Having done the AoS, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 26th June 2019 to file your Defence.

That's four weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:

Print your Defence.
1. Sign it and date it.
   
2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
   
4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
   
6. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to keep you under pressure.
   
7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.

The_Deep

£242 is far more than the Law allows for this sort of claim. The down market solicitors whom the PPCs engage know this, but, because they are solicitors, know that a lot of people will pay up.

It is in fact double charging and non claimable debt collectors' add ons. Imo, this is fraud, or, at the very least, improper conduct.

Were this to get to court and they won, the judge would be unlikely to award the claimant more than £175 - £200. I urge you to report this grubby law firm to their regulatory body, the SRA as I am sure they do not condone this conduct.

https://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/handbook/code/content.page

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Coupon-mad

do I have to send the defence form as well or can that wait until later?

You don't send any forms. Show us your draft defence now you've done the AOS.

BRRN

Received the info from NCP in response to the SAR yesterday so the defence will be being drafted over the next few days, I will post here when it's ready. Thanks.

Umkomaas

A very recent Appeal Court judgment (binding on lower courts) has become useful in P&D ANPR cases. Ironically this expensive Appeal Court case (which spectacularly blew up in their face) was very generously paid for by NCP! They really don't have much luck in the British Court system (do a Google search on James Mayhook v NCP when you have some spare moments - but nothing to draw on for your own case).

Read the following to understand the Appeal Court judgment.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6004010/ncp-appeal-tax-man-1-ncp-nil

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2019/854.html

Time of parking runs only from the point of obtaining the ticket, not on entry to car park.

BRRN

Actually that case is very interesting to me because of this:

"The judge said the total sum handed over by the customer, including any overpayment, should be deemed the fee they have paid to pay to park"

In my particular case:

The car was in the car park for 2 hours 18 minutes.

The ticket was purchased 2 minutes after entering.

The fee for "up to 2 hours" was £2.60

The actual amount paid was £3.00 and the machines there do not give change.

Therefore, in my view (and I am considering using this as a part of the defence - would like to get your thoughts on this idea) the driver actually paid for all the time that the vehicle was parked, because:

£2.60 for 120 minutes = 2.17 pence per minute

138 minutes total in the car park x 2.17 = £2.99

Or am I clutching at straws here?

Umkomaas

Therefore, in my view (and I am considering using this as a part of the defence - would like to get your thoughts on this idea) the driver actually paid for all the time that the vehicle was parked, because:

£2.60 for 120 minutes = 2.17 pence per minute

138 minutes total in the car park x 2.17 = £2.99

Nope! What the Judges were saying was that NCP wanted £2.60 for 2 hours, by showing that no change was given, the driver still accepted the 2 hours parking time (he/she could have left and gone to park elsewhere) for £3.00. They pressed the 'green button' confirming acceptance of the contract and paid £3.00.