Glazing firm is taking legal action against me.

tamsinx

Apologies for the length of this post.

Trying to make a very long story short:

We are building our dream home.

I really wanted Reynaers windows and doors and Reynaers pointed me in the direction of our local supplier and we went with them. We’re talking £50k! There is a lot of glass.

I have cared about the details of this build from the outset and this has not fazed our builders. Aside from a mining adit (70 cubic meters of concrete later!), - we have had no problems with any of the tradesmen apart from:

The local supplier of the Reynaers windows and doors.

There have been numerous ‘little’ things that have gone on… like a sticker was left inside of the triple glazing layers/a big scratch meant another pane needed replacing/gaskets fell out/cills were not colour matched, etc.

But a whole load of other issues - that were more significant - like it took the company 3 attempts to fix the pressings (cills) - to the 8m length of triple sliding doors. Also these large doors sat on a frame that was not installed level - but instead it leant back - and water just sat there - rather than drain away. And in the end, - these super-sized sliding doors had to be taken out of their aperture and put back in. Other items: The technical drawings specified that they would pack out with Ply but instead they used OSB. The cills were not meant to be butt-up against the block work but instead their drawings said they would leave room for render. They did not. There are literally too many other things to list here (for fear that nobody will bother reading this post). But it just seemed like one thing after another… and I simply could not believe the problems we were incurring when we were spending so much money.

But the main thing:

I was obsessive about the details and we worked together - the glazing company and I, - to get everything correct. Four versions of the contract were drawn up and each time I would go through it with a fine tooth-comb.

We were left with just one outstanding matter.

We have a room that has three floor - to nearly ceiling height windows and I wanted all the heads to be the same internally. The lintel heights were different because one of the windows had a steel lintel (due to an engineered corner) and the others - both concrete lintels.

The local firm suggested that the original surveyor visit the site (they are nearly 2 hours away). He did and I along with my other half and our builder discussed a resolve. We had been asked to Ply the head of each window and door throughout the build (in preparation or their arrival) - but where there was a steel lintel in this one room - we would not place any Ply. This would correct the head issue.

We were all agreed and as far as I was concerned - finally I could sign the paperwork - once amended.

Which is what I did.

But...t turned out, - the surveyor did not discuss the agreement and all three windows turned up and were installed and were all too short in height.

This meant that even when the finished floor - tiles - were down - the bottom of the frame of the windows was in sight - along with that darn OSB!

So, - I refused to pay the balance (just over £4.5k) and asked the local company to visit us. Which they did and they spent 7hrs with us!! They tried desperately to bamboozle me. But I wouldn’t let them and so they offered us - in the end - what they called a good will gesture - a 2.5% discount.

I said that a 2.5% discount was not nearly enough to ease the pain I felt when I looked at the eyesore in that room - the error (to me) literally sticks out like a sore thumb. The rest of the build is truly exquisite.

They say that the surveyor does not recall the conversation we had. I said that was disappointing but then asked - ask him, - What would he have suggested to resolve the issue we were facing? They say they have no further comment. I say he would suggest we don’t Ply the head!

Where on earth do we stand? I asked for a greater discount. They have refused and have said that even the original ‘good will’ gesture is off the table.

They are now taking legal action against us.

pinkshoes

If the contract says X and they have not done that, then they need to put it right.

You are quite right to withhold payment until the job is done correctly as per the signed contract.

At this point it would be wise to get a quote showing how much it will cost to rectify the issue, then respond to the company asking them to complete the per as per the contract, or pay £X so that someone else can correct their mistake.

Mistral001

Looks like they mean business. When you receive the writ, take it to your solicitor and get proper legal advice.

Aylesbury_Duck

You do seem to be on solid ground but it looks like it’s going to be a long and tiring legal struggle. I agree with the advice above. Find out what it would cost to rectify then speak to a solicitor to be able to respond suitably to the company’s legal action and to instigate your own for the rectification costs.

What’s a “fine tooth-comb”? ;-)
It’s supposed to be a fine-toothed comb.

Mistral001

It is a good idea to get some documentation on how much it will cost to remedy the defects as pinkshoes has pointed out. You will probably find that another builder or supplier will not give you a quote under these circumstances. In which case you will have to get an itemised schedule of costs from an independent surveyor, usually a chartered surveyor. Your solicitor should be able to guide you on a suitable person who will be able to do this.

tamsinx

I am unclear as to what the normal procedure is for such matters (have never been here before).

So, I should await a writ?

The company have asked for the full and final payment to be made by this Friday (31 May 2019) at which point, they say, they will take legal action. They copied a solicitor in the email.

My biggest gripe is that the company will not admit any fault on their part. When they visited us on site to discuss the problem, three guys came down - but not the surveyor. I asked why he was not present and they said that it was because he was not management. The company refuse to include the surveyor in communications. This is because (I think), the surveyor could not look me in the eye and say that he did not recall the conversation we had (which is what apparently he has said to them).

So their employee, - the surveyor (who still works for them) did not communicate back to head office the discussion we all had on site. The contract therefore was not amended to include the changes. And that is how we find ourselves in this situation.

I did not notice that this decision was not reflected in the contract that I signed.

However, the contract is very misleading - most definitely the first page where I had to place my signature and for sure there are items in the contract that have not been carried out as per their promise. I plan to hone in on the points that relate directly to the contract as I now realise this is key.

To fight a company like this takes great effort and it has already been quite exhausting and time consuming. I am the kind of person though that really struggles with injustice. I feel that the company is acting like a bully and so, hence - I’m still fighting. But of course - nobody wants this kind of stuff going on in their lives.

If the company had acted in a more compassionate way and not instead played the ‘blame on somebody else’ game, - I would have been more amenable.

tamsinx

Aylesbury_Duck wrote: »

You do seem to be on solid ground but it looks like it’s going to be a long and tiring legal struggle. I agree with the advice above. Find out what it would cost to rectify then speak to a solicitor to be able to respond suitably to the company’s legal action and to instigate your own for the rectification costs.

What’s a “fine tooth-comb”? ;-)
It’s supposed to be a fine-toothed comb.

Oops - yes - a fine-toothed comb is what I meant. You know how sometimes you write and you're just dog tired - and you make the dumbest mistakes.

Mistral001

tamsinx wrote: »

I am unclear as to what the normal procedure is for such matters (have never been here before).

So, I should await a writ?
.

Normal procedure is that you pay up, or you wait until they take you to court. You can keep trying to negotiate with them but that is likely to get nowhere and could seem a bit amateurish and hence weaken your position. Saying in effect "I will see you in court" might make them budge, but I would not count on it. In which case you wait until you are contacted by the courts, either in the form of writ or a summons to appear at a small claims court.

However, I would employ a solicitor NOW and take their advice. The solicitor will advise you your options and it is then up to you to decide to what to do.

Oxid8uk

tamsinx wrote: »

So their employee, - the surveyor (who still works for them) did not communicate back to head office the discussion we all had on site. The contract therefore was not amended to include the changes. And that is how we find ourselves in this situation.

I did not notice that this decision was not reflected in the contract that I signed.

So are you saying that what you discussed and agreed with the surveyor wasn't put in the contract and you didn't notice this before signing? So the glazing company wasn't aware about what was agreed and therefore manufactured the windows as per the contract you signed?

tamsinx

Oxid8uk wrote: »

So are you saying that what you discussed and agreed with the surveyor wasn't put in the contract and you didn't notice this before signing? So the glazing company wasn't aware about what was agreed and therefore manufactured the windows as per the contract you signed?

This is true.

To put in context though.. my main point of contact sent their surveyor down to talk about the issue we were having with the heads not being the same in that room. It is stated in their email that was the main reason for the nearly 2hr trip to us.

Prior also, my main point of contact and I had gone over every other item with a fine-toothed comb. We are talking what is in total, approx. 50m2 of glass. 23 panes. We knew each other very well by the end of the various discussions, emails, telephone calls etc. He had a fabulous eye for the detail and I appreciated this.

Every other item was present and correct. All that was needed was a final site visit.

And it was clear-cut - the resolve. Easy - all we needed to do was - not place Ply below the steel lintel. And so in turn the extra height of this lintel matched the other lintels in that room as they included Ply. Job done.

And so I get version D of the contract - following the visit and I went and signed it.

When all was not as it should be, - I then take a look at that version D contract more closely and it is clear then, they had not made the necessary change. They had made a window allowing for Ply. And because the other two windows in that room were going to be the same height as the shortest, - they all arrived too short. Literally, - when the finished floor was down you could see not only the bottom of the windows (2250mm in height) - but also the OSB below it.

This 'finish' is definitely not as per their technical drawings.

The contract I signed however did differ from the previous one as weirdly, they had adjusted an aperture size (of a window in that room). This was very odd since the apertures of course had not changed and were never in question.

This is when they ask their surveyor what he can recall. And this is when their surveyor says he simply can't recall the conversation that was had.

I then say to the MD - ok, - so the surveyor says he can't recall the conversation, - instead please ask him, - What would he have suggested as a resolve? My point being, - anyone in the industry would suggest exactly what the surveyor suggested we do. And they know that - but they will not discuss this in more detail. They are done discussing anything about the surveyor and what he said or didn't say.

Mistral001

I would not only get legal professional help, but get architectural professional help. You seem to be depending solely on the window suppliers drawings. What happened to the architectural drawings? Did you have any architectural drawings clearly showing details at lintel, reveals and cills. It is quite usual for all these details to be shown on architectural drawings even for a small house. On a job like this, with 8m wide openings, it is almost unheard of not to have very detailed drawings showing how the windows are coordinated with the walls at top sides and bottom.