Woodford Concerns

talexuser

HardCoreProgrammer wrote: »

People regularly get shouted down here for suggesting that it is not all "time in the market" and that timing the market has a role to play.
Now someone is openly advocating that investment style also has timing? I stand back and wait for the backlash ...

Pretty well every back study proves time in the market beats trying to time the market. Just because markets or investment styles have cycles (err.. the bleeding obvious) does not mean people can consistently time them accurately in advance.

Zola.

Jonah01 wrote: »

I've just got out. Have taken a loss and am keeping it in cash in my ISA and SIPP.

Would be happy to wait for a recovery but alarm bells are ringing in my head that the fund could fail completed.

I need to think about my next move carefully and not just chase the money I have lost.

Nothing worse than being a scared investor!

I'm the OP by the way

Index funds?

Seabee42

Before picking I would identify what my time frame for investment is and what my appetite for risk is.




The point of index funds is you sleep well not worrying about beating the market but it wont be flat.

Aminatidi

Not encouraging is it

https://www.investmentweek.co.uk/investment-week/news/3076515/woodford-equity-income-aum-falls-by-gbp560m-in-one-month

fun4everyone

harrys66 wrote: »

I'd love to know how much of his own monies woodford has invested into this fund.... me thinks limited

He did post an answer to this on his website a couple of years ago. Someone commented asking the same question you did. He replied that aside from the equity in his home 100% of his money was in his own funds. Cant link it but pretty sure that is what he said.

fun4everyone

Jonah01 wrote: »

I've just got out. Have taken a loss and am keeping it in cash in my ISA and SIPP.

Would be happy to wait for a recovery but alarm bells are ringing in my head that the fund could fail completed.

IMO a possible outcome is gated redemptions, where the fund does not allow withdrawals. Given the large portion of the fund that is illiquid and the fact he has already had to deal with huge volumes of redemptions by selling a ton of the other stuff you have to wonder what would happen if HL pulled out and sold their holding.

Seabee42

I doubt HL will pull the investment as it is individual choice to invest with him via HL and HL get the fee anyways.

fun4everyone

Seabee42 wrote: »

I doubt HL will pull the investment as it is individual choice to invest with him via HL and HL get the fee anyways.

HL hold large amounts in their multi manager fund things (fund of funds)

That’s most visible in Hargreaves Lansdown’s £8.5 billion multi-manager funds business. Woodford funds are held in all of the portfolios whose mandates allow it, amounting to a combined £623 million stake in the Equity Income fund and a £47 million holding in Income Focus.

https://citywire.co.uk/funds-insider/news/woodford-needs-hargreaves-lansdown-now-more-than-ever/a1208124

harrys66

fun4everyone wrote: »

He did post an answer to this on his website a couple of years ago. Someone commented asking the same question you did. He replied that aside from the equity in his home 100% of his money was in his own funds. Cant link it but pretty sure that is what he said.

He would have to say that if asked, anything else would be "suicidal", the actual truth can be very different as hes not breaking any laws giving the "right" answer, and no one can check

On hindsight quite surprising that these fund managers can profit doing the good and the bad times, even as the fund goes down he (and HL etc) are still benefiting from the fall, all those removal/admin fees right now can only add to this years income for them


Its the old adage ... the spade makers made most of the monies in the gold rush

Alexland

Jonah01 wrote: »

I need to think about my next move carefully and not just chase the money I have lost.

Give serious consideration to going with a low cost passive global index (such as an All World or All Cap) or mixed asset fund using indexes (such as Vanguard LifeStrategy or HSBC Global Strategy) with some bonds in proportion to your volatility tollerance and likely future withdrawal date(s).

Indexing is unsexy and as mentioned in this thread there will always be some funds that outperform in any given period but can you pick them in advance and get out before changes in market cycles cause them to underperform? Be happy knowing a close to market performance is better than most investors will achieve.

Since going mostly passive I sleep well not worrying about performance and my main concern is finding the contributions to shovel into the various investment accounts :-)

Alex