Woodford Concerns

AnotherJoe

If you wanted a small cap fund, why wouldnt you start with one which you know isn't full of dross?

Starting with the current 36p, whats so special about the combination of the previous managers track record, and the less than stellar record of the new manager, that woudl make you keep this, rather than another small cap, micro cap or private equity type investment?

jamei305

AnotherJoe wrote: »

If you wanted a small cap fund, why wouldnt you start with one which you know isn't full of dross?

Starting with the current 36p, whats so special about the combination of the previous managers track record, and the less than stellar record of the new manager, that woudl make you keep this, rather than another small cap, micro cap or private equity type investment?

Hubris I guess. You pride yourself at having the gumption to be in while others are out, and delight in your skill at identifying a fabulously discounted investment opportunity. No doubt it will be at a premium to NAV soon as others realise their mistake and try to grasp a slice of the pie.

MK62

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Presumably they were chosen for their track record of managing small cap ?

Schroder Small Cap Discovery is a high risk Asian/Emerging markets small cap fund, and makes no secret of that - comparing it to VLS100 is comparing apples to oranges.

Nobody who wanted broad global equity exposure would select Schroder Small Cap Discovery......and likewise anyone seeking some exposure to high risk smaller cap companies in emerging markets would hardly be likely to select VLS100.

AnotherJoe

MK62 wrote: »

Schroder Small Cap Discovery is a high risk Asian/Emerging markets small cap fund, and makes no secret of that - comparing it to VLS100 is comparing apples to oranges.
Nobody who wanted broad global equity exposure would select Schroder Small Cap Discovery......and likewise anyone seeking some exposure to high risk smaller cap companies in emerging markets would hardly be likely to select VLS100.

My point was to contrast Schroders small cap fund with the general stock market. Small Cap because it's the nearest equivalent to WPCT that I could find within Shroder funds. So, wherever it is and fair play I didn't know it was Asia , it's been a bit rubbish. Maybe it's been stellar compared to other small caps in the same area ?
Maybe there's some other factor at play, perhaps they were the only ones wishing to take over this poisoned chalice.

bowlhead99

AnotherJoe wrote:

Presumably they were chosen for their track record of managing small cap ?

Well, thanks for the snarky comment but their track record in UK smallcap seems absolutely fine. Over 10 years to yesterday the Schroder UK Small Companies fund delivered a 247% return versus 147% for the FTSE UK Small Cap index. Since 1987, the Schroder UK Small Companies fund delivered over 2000% return versus about 800% for the FTSE UK Small Cap index.

If you like your vanguard trackers you could look at a graph starting Jan 2010 and see that the global smallcap tracker started to seriously pull away from the UK smallcap index in June 2016 after the currency boost post-referendum, but other than that one-off currency event when the Schroder UK smallcap fell back and the global fund advanced, they have generally given the same return over the last three years, so Schroder's 250% from UK smallcap still beats Vanguard's 200% from global smallcap over the time that the Vanguard one has been running.

AnotherJoe

Ah, had i known they did a UK small cap I would have compared to that. Seriously. For the following reason.

As you've pointed out, they have an established UK small cap that apparently is doing very well, good history, plus they now have a new (mostly UK) small cap which most would agree is full of companies in trouble and worse.

Why therefore would you not invest in the fund with the established small cap whose NAV you can be pretty confident about? Why would you not sell WPCT and buy Schroder?

itwasntme001

Why on earth would you buy a fund (WPCT) when it's holdings were decided by a fund manager (Woodford) who has been given so much attention recently at how bad his stock picking was with WEIF, many of which do not make sense whatsoever to have been bought in the first place???


This is not rocket science people. And certainly not cold fusion

jimjames

itwasntme001 wrote: »

Why on earth would you buy a fund (WPCT) when it's holdings were decided by a fund manager (Woodford) who has been given so much attention recently at how bad his stock picking was with WEIF, many of which do not make sense whatsoever to have been bought in the first place???

Maybe you think that the 50% discount to (declared) NAV means that there is a good opportunity for revaluation when the new manager takes over and the situation isn't as bad as it seems.

I bought PE trusts in 2009 at rock bottom when the discount was sky high, when sentiment turned the price jumped with a nice profit.

itwasntme001

jimjames wrote: »

Maybe you think that the 50% discount to (declared) NAV means that there is a good opportunity for revaluation when the new manager takes over and the situation isn't as bad as it seems.

I bought PE trusts in 2009 at rock bottom when the discount was sky high, when sentiment turned the price jumped with a nice profit.

I am not sure about the details of your PE funds, but given it was back in 2009, chances are you bought something that had GENUINELY a large discount to NAV because the crisis would have thrown off a lot of the closed-ended funds particularly where the assets were relatively more illiquid.


With WPCT we are at all time highs in the stock market with no crisis and if you do some research into some of the companies in the fund, many are simply valued way too high meaning the NAV discount is not really much (or not as much) of a discount.

Thrugelmir

jimjames wrote: »

I bought PE trusts in 2009 at rock bottom when the discount was sky high, when sentiment turned the price jumped with a nice profit.

I bought F&C Enterprise trust (now morphed into ICG Enterprise Trust) when it launched in 1981...........

Not the greatest of investments. Though the return has been positive.