UPDATE - CASE WON Preparing for court - Witness Statement queries

Coupon-mad

Hmmm...you should share everything but that letter could be viewed as a reply to an order so maybe keep schtum. It's hardly news to the Claimant so they can't really object to not being copied in.

helencooke01

Okay thanks, I'll provide an update as soon as anything further happens.

Thanks

Helen

helencooke01

Hi all,

Here is an update on how things are progressing.

My evidence and letter to Judge Singleton were received at the court on 5th June (1 day before the deadline).
Today I have sent out my witness statement, this should arrived tomorrow (deadline is Thursday).
I have today received the WS from GS.

I have a couple of queries based on the above...
1) I haven't received a reply yet to the letter I sent to the Judge. The posted letter was received at the court on 5th June and I also sent one via email last Wednesday.
Should I chase this up with the court to make sure it's been seen by the Judge? I don't want to irritate the Judge but equally I want to make sure it's seen, as if they decide to set aside the claim it saves me having to go to Court.
2) On GS WS they state that 'the assumption is that our Client is not attending the hearing and therefore we kindly request this notice to be treated as a notice pursuant to CPR 27.9'. Does this mean that PCM will not be attending but a GS rep will be there? I didn't understand the section about CPR 27.9 and not sure if I need to respond.
3) GS have introduced new evidence that I have not had a chance to respond to, namely a sign showing a large 'P' and 'Private Land' on the entrance to the area in question. Interestingly, using Google Maps, I can see that the sign was not in place when the alleged contravention took place. Can I take this evidence to court with me and point it out to the judge? I think this makes my case stronger as there was no sign there previously (and so this proves that the signage in place at the time was inadequate).
4) GS have included, as part of their evidence pack, the previous correspondence I engaged with them where I offered to pay the initial £60. As advised I didn't include any reference to this in my defence/WS and am now concerned that GS might use this. They have not referenced it in the WS. Should I do anything or just ignore this?

Overall the WS seems to be a pre-written letter with nothing new in it (apart from the evidence that was not submitted as requested by the Judge) and actually their photos etc comply with mine and help show that the signage at the time was inadequate etc.

Thanks

Helen

Coupon-mad

I have today received the WS from GS.

I have a couple of queries based on the above...

1) I haven't received a reply yet to the letter I sent to the Judge. The posted letter was received at the court on 5th June and I also sent one via email last Wednesday.
Should I chase this up with the court to make sure it's been seen by the Judge? I don't want to irritate the Judge but equally I want to make sure it's seen, as if they decide to set aside the claim it saves me having to go to Court.

I would leave it. Either the Judge has read it or will read it just before the hearing and I doubt the claim would be struck out anyway. That was being hopeful!

But what it does, is set the scene for you to add to your list of the Claimant's 'unreasonable conduct' to take with you to the hearing, so that when you win and are asked about your costs before leaving, you can be robust and ask the Judge to (thanks to bargepole for this wording):

consider what sanctions may be applied to the Claimant, and/or their legal representatives, Gladstones Solicitors, who are clearly abusing the civil litigation process in order to attempt to gain a pecuniary advantage to which their clients have no entitlement. The Court may wish to consider the Judgment of the Court of Appeal in AXA Insurance PLC v Financial Claims Solutions Ltd & Ors [2018] EWCA Civ 1330, and express its disapproval of the Claimant’s conduct by making an award of exemplary damages in favour of the Defendant.

You have the job of painting that lovely picture of wholly unreasonable conduct (not just a meritless case, actual dodgy conduct like withholding evidence, introducing new evidence to ambush you at the eleventh hour, that you had not had a chance to respond to, falsifying images by deliberately or negligently using the wrong dated image on Google maps, and not keeping to the deadlines set by the court). And their abuse of process by adding sums on that they are not entitled to recover, is one that's easy to explain and should be a feature of all hearings when it comes to costs:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6001157/ukcpm-gladstoned

That OP managed to meet that high bar with their list of unreasonable conduct and got £700+ in indemnity costs (exemplary damages) to cover his/her wasted time and set an example. Try hard, it's a high bar to meet but if you do, you get your reward!

It means emailing to the Claimant & posting to the Court (48 hours before the hearing, in working days), a copy of your costs schedule setting out all the hours you spent and all costs you wish to claim for attending the hearing, a sum well into the hundreds. Like that link.

Then taking it all with you and be ready to swoop and justify it at the end!

2) On GS WS they state that 'the assumption is that our Client is not attending the hearing and therefore we kindly request this notice to be treated as a notice pursuant to CPR 27.9'. Does this mean that PCM will not be attending but a GS rep will be there? I didn't understand the section about CPR 27.9 and not sure if I need to respond.

It means no-one might turn up, but you must (advantage you!). Or that Gs might send a third party legal rep, but not likely anyone from PCM.

3) GS have introduced new evidence that I have not had a chance to respond to, namely a sign showing a large 'P' and 'Private Land' on the entrance to the area in question. Interestingly, using Google Maps, I can see that the sign was not in place when the alleged contravention took place. Can I take this evidence to court with me and point it out to the judge? I think this makes my case stronger as there was no sign there previously (and so this proves that the signage in place at the time was inadequate).

Brilliant - that's falsifying evidence then, if you can show for Google Maps that they have misused the website by not changing the date using the little arrow.

Yes, take the right Google Maps Street View printout with you x 3 to rebut their lies and watch their rep (if they send one) squirm to explain...!

I would be looking forward to this hearing if I were you.

4) GS have included, as part of their evidence pack, the previous correspondence I engaged with them where I offered to pay the initial £60. As advised I didn't include any reference to this in my defence/WS and am now concerned that GS might use this. They have not referenced it in the WS. Should I do anything or just ignore this?

Was it marked 'Without Prejudice' when you offered that, or part of an email trail of clearly 'WP' offers and counter-offers?

If so, add the fact they've included this WP communication at this stage, when as solicitors they know they must not, in your long list of wholly unreasonable conduct. This is a list you take with you to the hearing, and it doesn't have to be filed with the costs schedule.

Think of it as a crib sheet for you at the end, to sing for your Supper...

helencooke01

Thanks, Coupon-mad, really really appreciate all the advice and guidance you are offering.

I have made a note of the unreasonable conduct stuff - I have already sent a cost schedule to the court with my letter to the judge (part 1) and will prepare part 2 and follow your instructions to submit them both prior to the hearing.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Brilliant - that's falsifying evidence then, if you can show for Google Maps that they have misused the website by not changing the date using the little arrow.

Yes, take the right Google Maps Street View printout with you x 3 to rebut their lies and watch their rep (if they send one) squirm to explain...!

I would be looking forward to this hearing if I were you.

There is no date stamp, it's extremely misleading because it's a sign that is in place now, but was not in place when my husband used Whittle Square. I can prove that through Google Maps and so will make sure to take it with me to court and add it to my list of unreasonable behaviour. All the other photos with Google Maps have the date stamp so it looks like they have deliberately used a current photo

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Was it marked 'Without Prejudice' when you offered that, or part of an email trail of clearly 'WP' offers and counter-offers?

If so, add the fact they've included this WP communication at this stage, when as solicitors they know they must not, in your long list of wholly unreasonable conduct. This is a list you take with you to the hearing, and it doesn't have to be filed with the costs schedule.

Think of it as a crib sheet for you at the end, to sing for your Supper...

No there is nothing anywhere about it being Without Prejudice, GS have just included it as 'appeal correspondence'. To clarify, when the initial letter was received from the Debt Collection company I contacted them by phone as I had no idea what the letter was about. I explained this and was told to send an email. In the email I offered to pay the £60 (just to make it go away really) and this email is included in the 'appeal correspondence'. The Debt Collection company then replied to state that the £160 still stood and I had 7 days to pay etc. All of this is included in the Evidence Pack but is not referenced at all in the Witness Statement.

I'm confused about whether GS intend to use this as they have not referenced it anywhere to this point and there is no text anywhere regarding it. It is also listed as 'appeal correspondence' but I was never able to raise an appeal with PCM as I didn't receive the Penalty Charge Notice or the Notice to Keeper. The so-called 'appeal' was with the Debt Collection company and they took 8 weeks to reply to my initial email.

What do you think I should do regarding this?

Thanks

Helen

nosferatu1001

I might be wrong but, if it is not introduced in the WS, then they will have a job exhibiting it in court as the rep has no personal knowledge. Its jsut a photo.

I would sugges tyou show:
1) The photo they submitted WITH DATE STAMP so you can prove when it was taken
2) The actual photo at the time WITH DATE STAMP
3) Point out the deliberate actions by GS to remove the date stamp only has one reasonable explanation - which is they were hoping to mislead the court into thinking the photo was contemporaneous. You require an explanation of why this was deliberately omitted (dont let them claim it was accidentally left out - it had to be removed by them deliberately) frmo the rep.

Easy
Just state this was an attempt to settle to avoid the hassle and expense of court, but wasnt any admission of any form of liabiltiy. It was rejected. If they harp on about it being an appeal, point out it couldnt have been.

helencooke01

Hi Nosferatu

Thanks, that all makes sense.

I'll update again when anything else happens. Just need to get everything ready for court now.

Thanks

Helen

Coupon-mad

What do you think I should do regarding this?

Nothing, it was just part of an appeal and a desperate attempt to make it go away.

helencooke01

Hi all

I wanted to provide an update.

I have today received a letter from the court stating that, unless PCM comply with Para 4 of the Court Order by 3rd July, the claim will be dismissed.

Para 4 of the Court Order is the one that states that PCM must provide copies of all evidence they intend to reply upon to the Court and myself by 30th May.

So this is great news, but I suspect that PCM will simply state that they have included their evidence with the WS which arrived on 18th June.

Is there anything I can do here, or just stand by and see what happens?

I suppose the fact that the Judge has noticed they have not complied with the Order is positive though.

Thanks

Helen

helencooke01

Hi all

Just to provide an update, I have heard nothing from GS since the above letter was received from the Court. The deadline in the letter was today.

I suspect GS will have contacted the Court directly to advise that their 'evidence' was included with the WS they sent on 17th June.

However is it worth me contacting the Court for an update?

Thanks

Helen