Deprivation of assets

onwards&upwards

Gavin83 wrote: »

I do feel like we're going around in circles a bit here.

As I've already said if they're an existing resident chances are they will be allowed to pay the top up fee out of their own money, even if that officially isn't the rule. Ultimately they'll likely need to move anyway but it'll be seen as better to let them live there for a while longer than move them sooner.

The top up is more of an issue for people first entering care rather than existing residents.

But the link posted earlier explicitly states that you are not allowed to pay your own top up fees, so where does your information come from that this rule (law?) is broken regularly?

lisyloo

onwards&upwards wrote: »

But you could take £500 from the taxpayer and have a family member pay your top up of £200?

If you have below £14k (or theareabouts) in assets yes.
You have to hand over your mention minus £25 (for clothes, soap etc)

lisyloo

onwards&upwards wrote: »

So here’s a scenario, you’ve lived for 4 or 5 years in an £800 a week care home paying for it yourself out of your savings, pension income and the proceeds from selling your home.

You live longer than you expected and eventually you are down to 26,000 in capital.

If you have a well off child or other relative then the council will pay their rate (let’s say £500) happily and let your well off relative pay £300 and you get to stay where you are, where you have made friends, where the staff know you, your home.

If you don’t have any family, or they can’t afford to help you, then the council are no longer willing to pay the £500 they would have been?

Yes they will pay their £500 but they won’t pay £800, so you’ll have to move from an £800 home to a £500 home.

The is very unsettling for elderly people especially for those with dimensia who need familiar surroundings.
We have done our best to put our MIL in a place that she will not have to move when her needs increase or her money runs out.

lisyloo

onwards&upwards wrote: »

But the resident themselves isn’t allowed to pay the £300. If the resident themself has the means to pay the £300 then the council won’t pay the £500, will they?

Below the lower threshold of £14k you are deeemed to have effectively run out of money for all intents and purposes considering your may still have needs for the rest of your life (like spectacles, false teeth) and it may take some time to move you.
Between the £14k and £23k (not sure exact figures) you will still have to contribute.

I think you need to bear in mind it may take some time to move people especially if they have nursing/dimensia needs, so they may have to keep paying for a couple of months whilst they wait for a vacancy in practice.

So the £14k is to give some leeway and leave people with sufficient money for the rest of their lives.
Your idea that people in homes have no costs is wrong.
My MIL has very little capacity but if she goes out she need a wheelchair taxi. She has hairdos and manicures (why not I’d she has been robbed of everything).
She joins in the raffles and sweep stakes etc.

The rest of someone’s life could be another 15 years, so is £14k too much/too little?

I don’t know how it’s calculated but I think I have a better idea of the costs and COP costs as a deputy myself (and as someone else said it’s not free of the authorities have to manage someone’s money, I’d hazard a guess and say the charges are higher than a volunteer family member).

Sea_Shell

Also, just because a resident may not have family able to pay their top ups, doesn't mean they don't have any heirs, who they'd want to receive a small inheritance.

onwards&upwards

Sea_Shell wrote: »

Also, just because a resident may not have family able to pay their top ups, doesn't mean they don't have any heirs, who they'd want to receive a small inheritance.

That should be their choice to make though surely?

onwards&upwards

lisyloo wrote: »

Yes they will pay their £500 but they won’t pay £800, so you’ll have to move from an £800 home to a £500 home.

Because you aren’t allowed to pay the £300 yourself you have to have somebody willing to pay it for you. How is that not crazy?

It’s ‘dementia’ btw.

lisyloo

onwards&upwards wrote: »

Because you aren’t allowed to pay the £300 yourself you have to have somebody willing to pay it for you. How is that not crazy?

It’s ‘dementia’ btw.

No, long term you’ve run out of money.
In practice You can pay it whilst they move you which might take 2-3 months depends on availability and your needs, but basically you’ve run out of money.
In practice it’s unlikely there’s a place available immediately (even when people die the family have to move the belongings) so you can probably pay during the looking period.
Most homes will send someone round to assess you to make sure they can meet your needs (and reject you if they don’t want you).
I think the bit you’re missing is that this takes time so they have to start it before you’ve got down to ZERO.

How does correcting small spelling errors help anything or anyone in the world?
Please educate me on that? Seriously I’m open to understanding the mindset.

onwards&upwards

lisyloo wrote: »

How does correcting small spelling errors help anything or anyone in the world?
Please educate me on that? Seriously I’m open to understanding the mindset.

Just trying to help you not look silly when you’re saying how well informed you are on these matters. You’re probably going to have to use it, may as well be able to get it right.

lisyloo

onwards&upwards wrote: »

Just trying to help you not look silly when you’re saying how well informed you are on these matters. You’re probably going to have to use it, may as well be able to get it right.

Hmm, I don’t believe your concerns are my credibility but just so you know the odd spelling mistake doesn’t affect people achieving whatever they want in life.

For COP the medical sections are completed by medical staff (the doctors writing and spelling was appalling BTW but for £85 I think he did it in 2 minutes flat but I understand they are busy and it did the job).

I would suggest you take up your concerns with your MP or perhaps the local authority as none of us here can change the law.

Personally I think it makes sense to START looking for places and assessing people before they get to ZERO.
You clearly have a different opinion of where the line should be from the experts (not me but the authorities).
I would just say it can take many months due to both availability and the actual assessment, moving out, decorating, moving in process.

Places are often not readily available in the local area and the higher the needs the more difficult it becomes. Often people have to go on waiting lists and wait for people to “vacate” which usually means someone has to die (occasionally people move to another facility and occassionally go home if it was rehab).

Oops - I think my dyslexia came up there again, I’m sorry it bothers you, but I’m glad it hasn’t stopped me doing anything and I don’t believe it’s hampered my credibility e.g in a city job or as a pilot.

I’ll take my leave here as I’ve added all I can, but I think you need to allow a few months for moving.