Loft conversion without planning permission and BR

Doozergirl

massilia13 wrote: »

From samconveyancing solicitor website:

"If an additional bedroom has been added but hasn't had building building control sign off, then it cannot be marketed as having the additional room. You can only market a property with having 3 bedrooms if all 3 bedrooms have planning permission and building control sign off.
You should speak to the selling estate agent and inform them if they are incorrectly selling a property with more bedrooms than it legally has."

Utter, utter rubbish.

Davidmcn's comments about the 1970s extension apply. In fact, most houses themselves don't have records building control sign off but solicitors aren't interested in those. Does that mean they're not legally houses?

As said, still no law quoted. There's no such thing as 'legal' number of bedrooms. People can sell whatever they want to whomever they want. There is, however, such a thing as a number of safe rooms.

Have a good survey and satisfy yourselves that it is safe. That is all.

Edit: There's many inaccuracies around building work on the blog pages of the site you referred to. I don't know where they got their information from.

phillw

AFAIK if you don't have a loft conversion signed off you shouldn't sell it, buy you should insure it. As for specific laws I would say it would be misrepresentation if they didn't disclose up front that it didn't have building regs. It probably would also be misrepresentation if you don't inform your mortgage lender

massilia13

Thanks for you replies,

So I should follow my solicitor's advice and carry on with my building survey, without worrying too much about the status of this bedroom.

What do you think about taking on a building regulation indemnity insurance on the seller expense?

I have read on the legislation.gov.uk website that under the section 36 (4) of the 1984 building act that "A notice under subsection (1) or (2) (called a “section 36 notice”) shall not be given after the expiration of 12 months from the date of the completion of the work in question."

This should cover, the very unlikely risk of law enforcement by the council.

davidmcn

massilia13 wrote: »

What do you think about taking on a building regulation indemnity insurance on the seller expense?

Bit of a waste of time and money, other than meaning that you'd then have it available if it keeps a future buyer or lender happy. They're relatively cheap (because the risk is almost non-existent, even more so in your case).

kinger101

Many estate agent will not market such a conversion as a bedroom

https://thenegotiator.co.uk/30220-2/

Doozergirl

kinger101 wrote: »

Many estate agent will not market such a conversion as a bedroom

https://thenegotiator.co.uk/30220-2/

Just goes to show how much even apparent property experts know about the difference between planning and building control.

A lack of building control approval cannot mean that a room is not a room. In theory, a room could exceed Building regulations but have no certificate. Most houses themselves have no certificates. Why are there no similar questions about bedrooms in extensions with no certificate? Lofts are singled out. It might be prudent for the agent to reduce the number of rooms to avoid being dragged to the Ombudsman, but the reality is that one has to check the whole house out, not just individual rooms.

I understand that a poor loft conversion where no structural work has been undertaken is no excuse for a room, but the lack of a certificate cannot be the measure, because by that measure you'd need to apply the rule across every part of every building. What about conversions pre the 1984 Act? Are they just 'rooms' regardless of actual safety?

What has to be the test is quality. It might be that someone should check the structural quality of rooms without a certificate before sale - but where does that end under our current system? You'd end up with the full survey done beforehand (I have no real issue with that).

Just waffling now. There's no real excuse for not having anything approved at the time. It's just not cut and dry.

kinger101

Doozergirl wrote: »

Just goes to show how much even apparent property experts know about the difference between planning and building control.

A lack of building control approval cannot mean that a room is not a room. In theory, a room could exceed Building regulations but have no certificate. Most houses themselves have no certificates. Why are there no similar questions about bedrooms in extensions with no certificate? Lofts are singled out. It might be prudent for the agent to reduce the number of rooms to avoid being dragged to the Ombudsman, but the reality is that one has to check the whole house out, not just individual rooms.

I understand that a poor loft conversion where no structural work has been undertaken is no excuse for a room, but the lack of a certificate cannot be the measure, because by that measure you'd need to apply the rule across every part of every building. What about conversions pre the 1984 Act? Are they just 'rooms' regardless of actual safety?

What has to be the test is quality. It might be that someone should check the structural quality of rooms without a certificate before sale - but where does that end under our current system? You'd end up with the full survey done beforehand (I have no real issue with that).

Just waffling now. There's no real excuse for not having anything approved at the time. It's just not cut and dry.

The problem is from a resale perspective. Once solicitors, estate agents and surveyors are involved, there's a very high chance on of these will tell a perspective buyer that the converted loft without regulations falls somewhat short of being a habitable room.

I'd make sure the price I paid for any property reflected the questionable status of the third bedroom.

I see what you mean about extensions, but I suspect lofts are singled out as there's much greater danger in the event of fire.

massilia13

That is indeed a problem I would like to avoid!

tom9980

Massilia13 wrote: »

That is indeed a problem I would like to avoid!

Then buy another property.