Electric Cars Good for planet or just bad?

seatbeltnoob

Jonesya wrote: »

The plan is that in future, chargers will need to be smart so that they can be turned down if needed during peak periods to prevent this. In practice, people can save money by avoiding peak periods altogether and charging overnight.

Some people already do this for the washing machines, i have no doubt people will do this for cars.


Cars will know all your driving habits, know when you drive, how long you drive, where you drive to. what you do in your bank holidays and charge based on those habits. If it detects that you just have lie ins on bank holidays, it might decide not to charge to 100%, and stop at 80% (charging batteries to 100% and storing them without using them is bad for tbge battery)

almillar

(sorry for the long post!)

The proof of potential innovation is in Formula 1 racing, when limits were put on the cars we saw all sorts on innovation such as reclaiming the energy from braking.

I agree in theory, but Nissan Leafs were doing this (regenerative braking) before F1 was.

Although F1 agreed to stop using it Tesla use it now.

F1 still uses it as of the Hungarian GP yesterday. !!!!!! has that got to do with Tesla?!

Electric cars are just good for pushing all the pollution somewhere else

You're not taking into account that there's less pollution in the first place, as the EV uses less power to move the same distance, and also discounting the possiblity of an EV being powered sustainably. And ignoring the minor inconvenience of mining, refining and transport of petrol and diesel.

but batteries will never supply what we need

Batteries supplies what I need - what do you need? The same energy density as petrol/diesel? The ability to drive 500 miles non stop? Most people don't, considering many can refuel at home.

Can't see Tesco car park being full of charging points as previous poster said its not going to happen

'Full of' - no, but there are already plenty of people charging their cars whilst doing their shopping. Lidl, Sainsburys and Asda have been good at this in my area. I certainly don't need to charge anything near EVERY time I go shopping.

Electric cars simply move the pollution caused by their IC counterparts to elsewhere

They produce less pollution, and there's a possiblity for them to produce none, with sustainable power sources.

Can you imagine the carnage on city streets if every parked car needed a cable running to it to charge it?

Can you imagine wireless charging? Can you imagine charging your car whilst driving along a special lane on the road? Both of these things have already at least been successfully trialled.

Nothing beats getting 600 miles of energy pumped into a car within two minutes. And I don't think battery cars will ever get to that.

You don't refuel from empty in 2 minutes. You're not counting driving to the petrol station, waiting for a free pump, wiping the petrol off the nozzle, paying, driving away. Compare this to charging your car overnight in your driveway. There is no frost on your windscreen and your car is nice and warm when you get in.

I just charge somewhere else, at another time. Again, I don't only plan to charge when I have to. I charge whenever it's convenient.

Golly gosh!! What a logical thing to do! I've been sitting in Tesco car park for 3 weeks waiting for a charger to be repaired, and have died whilst waiting. RIP me!
Why can't people wrap their heads around not having to visit a special fuel place, to get fuel?!

Am I the only person who wonders why the EV industry isn't looking to make cars with standard replacable batteries/cells that could be changed in minutes instead of ones that are deeply integrated into the car's structure and take hours to charge

Renault already did, with the Fluence EV. Replable battery pack Randomly did well somewhere in the middle east, but nowhere else. People have very quickly got over the idea of not wanting to own a battery. We've already got a electricity distrubution network, we just need to plop some chargers (and maybe some localised storage) onto it. Compare that chaRging infrastructure, a lot of which we already have, with a battering chaNging infrastructure, which is virtually non existent. That ship has sailed, IMO. Again, why would I want to drive somewhere to pay someone to swap batteries in my car, while I wait, when I can just get into my car in the morning/ after work/ after shopping to a full (ish) battery? How is that in any way efficient?

Car_54

almillar wrote: »

I agree in theory, but Nissan Leafs were doing this (regenerative braking) before F1 was.
And railways had been doing it since the 1880s.


You're not taking into account that there's less pollution in the first place, as the EV uses less power to move the same distance,
Are you sure? Basic physics says otherwise.

See comments above.

uknick

Interesting discussion.

I think this technology may be the way to go with regard to large car parks, such a supermarkets. Yes, it'll be a major infrastructure project, but bigger than installing petrol forecourts?

https://www.sytner.co.uk/news/bmw-wireless-charging/

I don't believe it's that efficient at the moment, but as with all technology it'll improve. With regard to paying for the electric, Mercedes currently have a system where the car is registered with all UK charging companies. You just plug your car in and it tells the charging company where to send the bill.

DoaM

uknick wrote: »

I think this technology may be the way to go with regard to large car parks, such a supermarkets. Yes, it'll be a major infrastructure project, but bigger than installing petrol forecourts?

https://www.sytner.co.uk/news/bmw-wireless-charging/

I don't believe it's that efficient at the moment, but as with all technology it'll improve.

In the end, it's just a derivation of what Tesla (the original man, not the vehicle make) invented over a 100 years ago.

Interesting quote in the article though:

Utilising a 3.2kW current, the 530e’s battery can be wirelessly charged from empty to full in around three-and-a-half hours.

Who knew that current was measured in units of kW?

NaughtiusMaximus

seatbeltnoob wrote: »

The good thing about EV is as long as the batteries are good the cars drive on a lot longer than ICE cars. Most people consider cars that are older than 10 years to be bangers and a ticking time bomb. Build super long lasting batteries that have 50,000 chare cycles and problem sorted. We'll see it in our lifetimes.

I'm sure this will be technically possible within our lifetimes but highly unlikley such vehicles would reach the market. Car manufacturers' business models are built around the assumption that the majority of cars are scrapped well before they reach 15 years old. If every car on the road was good for 20-25 years their profits would drop massively.

almillar

And railways had been doing it since the 1880s.

Excellent, so road cars did not get it from F1, as had been said.

You're not taking into account that there's less pollution in the first place, as the EV uses less power to move the same distance,

Are you sure? Basic physics says otherwise.

You're talking about basic physics at the wheels. Same energy in, same distance travelled. Go back a bit, to the fuel source. The EV USES less power because roughly half the power doesn't get wasted as heat/noise. The same amount of force has to go into moving the same mass at the same speed, but there's not half the used energy going up in smoke. I think you already knew this.

Car_54

[QUOTE=almillar;76122274
You're talking about basic physics at the wheels. Same energy in, same distance travelled. Go back a bit, to the fuel source. The EV USES less power because roughly half the power doesn't get wasted as heat/noise. The same amount of force has to go into moving the same mass at the same speed, but there's not half the used energy going up in smoke. I think you already knew this.[/QUOTE]
So you meant less energy, rather than less power?

silverwhistle

almillar wrote: »

You're talking about basic physics at the wheels. Same energy in, same distance travelled. Go back a bit, to the fuel source.

You also haven't mentioned the energy used to get that energy to the car: refining crude to make petrol or diesel itself takes a significant input, let alone obtaining the crude oil in the first place.


The charging issue will balance itself out although there may be some temporal or locational imbalances along the way. Action is and will be needed but I'm not as concerned as some people.



Although most people still charge at home and that will be the best way for some time, particularly with the new tariffs being introduced, there are still people who manage _now_ with no home charging (Dr Eskimo on here, I believe?). EV users already make the distinction over charger speeds and there needs to be more general understanding why chargers in places like your work place or hotels/B&Bs or at home don't need to be as fast as those on the motorway and trunk road network.

DrEskimo

silverwhistle wrote: »

there are still people who manage _now_ with no home charging (Dr Eskimo on here, I believe?).

Yup.

All depends on your driving pattern and access to other chargers. Everyone will be different, but I commute by train to London, and my OH has a 15miles round trip commute to work. My Zoe can average 150miles all year round, so that's 75miles used by my OH for commuting Mon-Fri, leaving 75miles for the weekend.

I'm currently charging using a POLAR post just 5mins walk from me. Leave it for a few hours most Sunday mornings, and it's fully charged again. When my parents move back into their house (had to move out while repairing a leaking pipe), I will just charge at theirs when I visit, as they have a drive and kindly let me install a charger at theirs.