Electric Cars Good for planet or just bad?

silverwhistle

Actually National Grid have actually come out and stated that they don't foresee any insurmountable problems with EVs.



As it is, anybody with any intelligence will be setting their vehicles to charge at cheap night rate.

Jonesya

Sea_Shell wrote: »

As it is, the national grid have to carefully monitor output to produce enough juice for everyone at half time of major football matches or at the end of EastEnders.

What are their plans from everyone getting home from work, at say, 6pm and plugging the car in.

The plan is that in future, chargers will need to be smart so that they can be turned down if needed during peak periods to prevent this. In practice, people can save money by avoiding peak periods altogether and charging overnight.

DrEskimo

Sea_Shell wrote: »

As it is, the national grid have to carefully monitor output to produce enough juice for everyone at half time of major football matches or at the end of EastEnders.

What are their plans from everyone getting home from work, at say, 6pm and plugging the car in.

Got any candles!!???;)

The national grid see a combination of incentivising off-peak charging, where electricity is cheapest (the reasons for this are that it actually costs money to turn off natural gas and coal power plants, so in some cases you can be paid to use the electricity during these times, as well as the increase in wind generation, which is the cheapest form of electricity generation), as well as a move towards smart charging with vehicle-to-grid technology.

Rather than try and develop one massive centralised battery storage facility, the idea is to just use everyone's individual EV spread over the UK. When you get home you plug in, but you input the times you need need the car, and the level of charge you require (also a minimum amount you want, just in case you need to use the car for an emergency). The grid can then use the energy directly from the EV's (again, incentivised through pay-back schemes like with solar) during peak hours when you aren't using it, then schedule it to charge back up during off-peak hours ready for the morning.

http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1363/fes-interactive-version-final.pdf

What's quite remarkable is that studies indicate that discharging and charging the battery in very controlled ways, as could be achieved by vehicle-to-grid technologies, can actually lead to better preservation of the battery.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421517307619

Far from being a major hurdle, EV's could provide a solution to our energy requirements....!

shinytop

Am I the only person who wonders why the EV industry isn't looking to make cars with standard replacable batteries/cells that could be changed in minutes instead of ones that are deeply integrated into the car's structure and take hours to charge. It would mean some radical redesign of the way cars look rather than just replicating the latest ICE SUV/Limo/hatchback. Even a battery pack on a trailer would work at a push (or a pull ). I suppose such an approach would need co-operation, which isn't going to happen voluntarily.

buglawton

One manufacturer is
https://www.sae.org/news/2019/01/nio-ev-battery-swapping

motorguy

shinytop wrote: »

Am I the only person who wonders why the EV industry isn't looking to make cars with standard replacable batteries/cells that could be changed in minutes instead of ones that are deeply integrated into the car's structure and take hours to charge. It would mean some radical redesign of the way cars look rather than just replicating the latest ICE SUV/Limo/hatchback. Even a battery pack on a trailer would work at a push (or a pull ). I suppose such an approach would need co-operation, which isn't going to happen voluntarily.

I think that would be a minority view.

Apart from anything they are particularly heavy to maneuver about and also i think the majority of people want EVs that look relatively normal rather than something radically different / odd looking.

DrEskimo

My issue with swappable batteries is that it requires leasing the battery. I'm not a fan of this ownership model, and it would seem I'm not alone. .

If I owned it, I would want to keep my own battery, as I know I've looked after it.

With charging speeds reaching as high as 350kW, it really doesn't save much time. If you watch TeslaBjorn, he drives long distances with a model 3, and even with 150kW chargers he's finding that stopping after 300KM for his usual food stop (as you would even in an ICE), the car is finished charging before he's finished eating! It's actually becoming an issue, as you risk getting charged idling fees!

shinytop

motorguy wrote: »

I think that would be a minority view.

Apart from anything they are particularly heavy to maneuver about and also i think the majority of people want EVs that look relatively normal rather than something radically different / odd looking.

I agree but my point is maybe we have to accept things have to change. I'd tow my battery behind me if there were no choice or it was a lot cheaper.

DrEskimo wrote: »

My issue with swappable batteries is that it requires leasing the battery. I'm not a fan of this ownership model, and it would seem I'm not alone. .

If I owned it, I would want to keep my own battery, as I know I've looked after it.

But you wouldn't own it, that's the point! It's not the same as the current battery lease model either. It's like calor gas cylinders; you buy one, use it and then swap it for a full one; you don't get your own one filled up. If the one you get is a bit rusty, who cares, you'll probably get a nice shiny one next time.

DrEskimo

But going out of my way to swap the battery every time it runs low is less convenient than just charging it....?

The only time it would be useful is for long distance journeys, so I would be paying more to lease a battery that I would only swap on rare occasions. I run the risk of swapping to a battery that has a lower capacity than the one I had, thereby having reduced range until I get around to swapping it again.

It's an interesting idea, but as EVs reach 250+mile ranges with 350kW chargers (aka Model 3), it starts trying to solve a problem that no longer exists, as it takes about the same amount of time to charge as a normal 'pit-stop' would take.

seatbeltnoob

all technology is a bit rubbish at first, the firsts cars were extremely expensive and slower than horse drawn carts. If people decided that automobiles were worse than horsecarts and stopped progress in that area. We wouldn't have the transport as we know it.


Several things will happen over the years.
Battery cell technology will improve so they charger faster, hold more energy and are less econologically devestating. Google aluminium ion, research looks promising.


The good thing about EV is as long as the batteries are good the cars drive on a lot longer than ICE cars. Most people consider cars that are older than 10 years to be bangers and a ticking time bomb. Build super long lasting batteries that have 50,000 chare cycles and problem sorted. We'll see it in our lifetimes.