Help! County Court / NCP Parking / BW Legal

confused_lady_001

Thanks so much, I'm happier now I will have something to say when I'm there. That is an excellent point about the timing of ticket sales and I'll get to work with some highlighter pens to present it graphically.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Take along a printout from Debt Recovery Plus here:

Sorry to sound thick but I don't understand the relevance of this. Do NCP use Debt Recovery Plus?

The_Deep

IMO you have no need to fear, judges are not fools and are well aware of the dishonesty of these parking companies. just tell it like it is and I am sure that you will be fine.

£244 is far too much for a single claim, they are claiming for hings they know are not allowed, so report the solicitors to their regulatoty body, the SRA.

http://www.sra.org.uk/home/home.page

Also, complain to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

and do not forget to press for costs, their behaviour, imo, is unreasonable, and the judge should make them pay for your time spent dealing with this at £19 per hour, including time spent attending court.

confused_lady_001

The_Deep wrote: »

£244 is far too much for a single claim, they are claiming for hings they know are not allowed, so report the solicitors to their regulatoty body, the SRA.

Which parts are not allowed? Can they claim for interest and solicitor's costs?

Coupon-mad

Interest: yes within reason but it's not reasonable for example, for them to sit on a PCN for four years then try to claim a large sum in interest due to their own inaction, when they could have brought a claim that same year.

Actual Court fees, yes, if you lose - fifty quid.

Solicitors fees, no, but they will try. Same as they try for the fake £60 'debt collection costs/initial legal fees' or however all the letters described it.

Do NCP use DRP? I think so, didn't you get any debt collector letters?

Anyway here is a typical NCP defence covering the issues that mean they cannot recover added costs (see the section in the defence there, about the costs being disproportionate and disingenuous) as it even explains why the 'legal fees' are a lie:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75769111#Comment_75769111

You could print that out to take with you as a crib sheet...

..also you can read & use this, and get it clear in your head that a PPC can't have their cake and eat it:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75791623#Comment_75791623

The cost of the letters is already on the £100, they can't also say those same debt chasing letters have caused them losses over and above!

confused_lady_001

Let me begin by sincerely thanking everyone here for your kind help and advice. I had studied hard over the weekend and was feeling well informed and very positive.

---

So I went to court this morning and it didn't go very well. In fact I am bitterly disillusioned with the County Court system because it does not live up to it's promises.

After a two hour wait I was ushered into a chamber more like a courtroom than the informal office I was expecting. The judge was aloof, unsympathetic and impatient. He was a busy man who wanted this case gone ASAP. I knew I'd lost before I'd even said a word.

After a nice chat with the advocate, who he clearly knew, his demeanor hardened as I finally got my chance to speak. I began my defence by pointing out the 50 minute window where only two payments were made. I had prepared a graphic representation but he refused to look at it, preferring to take a quick glance at the original NCP printout.

He said he believed me that I wasn't lying but rejected my suggestion of frustration of contract because I was free to leave immediately and park elsewhere. Apparently non-working payment machines is no defence. I tried to explain that on that day I urgently needed to get back to my severely disabled husband but it fell on deaf ears.

Then I moved on to the amounts claimed. Initially he told me I was only facing these charges because I'd failed to cough up earlier but he reluctantly accepted my legal argument that £100 was the maximum acceptable "fine". He knocked off the £60 extra and reduced the interest charged to 1%.

BUT despite my arguments and protestations he allowed the £50 "solicitor's costs" and added a further £25 for the advocate. The total I must pay is a few pence short of £202. Okay, I've saved £42 but for all the time, hassle and utter frustration it was barely worth it.

What I've learned from this experience is that we are utterly powerless. The system is rigged against the ordinary person. You can't win.

confused_lady_001

Can't remeber the judge's name but it was in the Nuneaton County Court, located in what is laughably called "the Justice Centre".

The anarchist in me is considering not paying this. BW Legal would then invoke the County Court bailiffs adding to their costs. Good.

The bailiffs can't touch me. We have a Motability car so they'll have no luck trying to grab that. My husband is in a wheelchair so ours is defined as a vulnerable household which means a set of strict "hands off" rules apply. We can order them off our property and call the police to escort them away if they fail to comply. Incredibly we could legally break a bottle over a bailiff's head and if they called the police it's them who would be arrested. It's true!

Eventually they would report back to BW Legal that there are no goods on which to levy. I'd have an unpaid CCJ on my credit file but so what? It's probably shot to hell anyway. I don't use credit cards and haven't used or needed any credit in the last decade, nor will I ever in the future.

Coupon-mad

OK, it may not bother you then.

Alternatively, if you qualify on low income grounds for 'help with fees' and believe the Judge erred, you could try an appeal at no costs to you, on the grounds that:

- the Judge incorrectly dismissed the frustration of contract argument, given that the Judge did not find against you, that the machines were not working (so the 'frustration' element WAS established as fact, on the balance of probabilities) and

- if parking was not currently on offer at a price due to machine failure, the PPC had the option to either close the car park until the issue was sorted out, or put signs up either telling people they could park for free or that parking was actually temporarily banned and that they WOULD be charged £100 due to this, if they parked anyway. Instead, the Claimants left the entrance open with a 'P' sign on offer, declaring it to be a Pay & Display car park (an invitation to treat) and people drove in expecting that bargain. They were never dissuaded to park at all or told to leave & take their custom to another car park, so the Judge erred to jump to that conclusion and put the blame for the frustration of contract on the consumer, contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

- further, the Judge erred regarding 'standard costs' proportionality, in that he/she heard the arguments that clearly uphold the argument that £60 cannot be added, but then erred by adding £50 in solicitor fees that were never incurred (it was a BW Legal robo claim with no solicitor work involved) and allowing £25 in advocate's fees, something that can only be added if the Defendant had acted wholly unreasonably, which you didn't.

Unless he did find you acted unreasonably by failing to file any evidence?