Help! County Court / NCP Parking / BW Legal

confused_lady_001

Hello

I'm due in the County Court on Monday (13 May) to defend a parking claim. I am a 64-y-o woman who doesn't really understand this stuff, and I'm hoping some kind person could help answer a few questions. If I have posted this incorrectly please be patient with me.

A year ago I parked my husband's Motability car on a local NCP car park for 28 minutes. I had ample change in my purse and have always paid to park on previous occasions.

On arrival I was informed by two other vehicle owners that the NCP payment machines were not working. I checked both machines and can state categorically that they were not accepting payment at that time. I did not have my mobile with me so it was impossible to make payment. Otherwise I would definitely have paid and am very upset to be accused of fraud.

When NCP Ltd sent a penalty letter I appealed informing them of these circumstances, although I now realise this was a mistake. NCP rejected my appeal and eventually passed the matter to BW Legal who sent a procession of threatening letters that I ignored. I entered a short defence to their County Court claim as per the above.


The amounts claimed are:

Principal Debt - £160.00
Interest - £9.48
Court Fees - £25.00
Solicitor's Costs - £50

---

TOTAL £244.48


BW Legal have appointed an advocate to attend the hearing and have recently sent me a copy of their very comprehensive legal pack that appears to have all of the angles covered. It includes a list of machine payments from "the Metric Group" including two payments made during the 28 minutes I was parked there. I did not check the machines again when I left the car park.

*Do I have any realistic defence? Is it even worth me turning up at the hearing?

*Assuming I lose this case can I be charged any additional fees or expenses?

*Will I have the opportunity to pay in small installments? I can ill afford this being dependent on disability benefits.

Thanks very much in advance for any response.

Le_Kirk

What have you put in your defence and witness statement? The usual defence when payment machines are broken is frustration of contract - did you use that phrase?

Coupon-mad

I am concerned that since filing a defence you haven't filed & served your evidence and Witness Statement in the past fortnight like the parking firm did to you?

The letter from your court giving the hearing date, told both parties to do this. It will be too late now if you have not but it means you have not filed any evidence at all and will have to rely on your defence alone and pull apart the holes in their 'evidence'.

For example:

It includes a list of machine payments from "the Metric Group" including two payments made during the 28 minutes I was parked there.

Does that evidence actually identify the machines on that list as being at THIS location on THIS day and is it signed off by an engineer or NCP's Data Protection Officer as a true copy? If not, then the list can have been invented and/or been mocked up from another site, or simply typed up on a sheet of paper by anyone!

If you lose and pay by instalments a CCJ remains on your credit file for 6 years. If you pay it off in full within 28 days there is no CCJ remaining at all.

Best of luck, turn up in time and don't be intimidated, and DON'T agree to have a little chat with their rep beforehand, as he/she will pressure you to settle and make you feel like you have no case. You are better to be an honest witness in front of a Judge IMHO, even without a Witness Statement, as Judges are human.

confused_lady_001

@Le_Kirk
My defence statement was exactly as follows:

"I parked on the Nuneaton Newdegate Street car park on 26/04/2018!for approximately 30 minutes.

On arrival I was informed by two other vehicle owners that the NCP!payment machines were not working.

I personally checked both machines and can state categorically!that they were not accepting payment at that time. Hence it was!impossible for me to make payment.

On 08/05/2018 I wrote to NCP Ltd informing them of these!circumstances but they refused to accept that explanation."

confused_lady_001

Coupon-mad wrote: »

For example:Does that evidence actually identify the machines on that list as being at THIS location on THIS day and is it signed off by an engineer or NCP's Data Protection Officer as a true copy? If not, then the list can have been invented and/or been mocked up from another site, or simply typed up on a sheet of paper by anyone!

I don't actually have any evidence or witnesses other than myself. The list of machine payments from "the Metric Group" is not signed off by anyone. It does look authentic and identifies the machines as "NUN001" and "NUN002" at "Nuneaton Newdegate Street".

Castle

confused_lady_001 wrote: »

I don't actually have any evidence or witnesses other than myself. The list of machine payments from "the Metric Group" is not signed off by anyone. It does look authentic and identifies the machines as "NUN001" and "NUN002" at "Nuneaton Newdegate Street".

Do they show the ticket number, VRN and time against each payment?

confused_lady_001

Castle wrote: »

Do they show the ticket number, VRN and time against each payment?

No. They show the time, the tariff (e.g. NUN01B) and a part registration number including hashtags.

I arrived at 11.34am. The two payments during my 28 minute stay were at 11.48am and 11.54am. The next payment was at 12.19pm. It's possible, if not likely, the machines glitched around this period.

Castle

confused_lady_001 wrote: »

No. They show the time, the tariff (e.g. NUN01B) and a part registration number including hashtags.

I arrived at 11.34am. The two payments during my 28 minute stay were at 11.48am and 11.54am. The next payment was at 12.19pm. It's possible, if not likely, the machines glitched around this period.

So only two tickets bought in a 45 minute period for a car park with 77 spaces in the centre of Nuneaton, that seems very low!

Does it show how many tickets were bought in the 45 minutes before 11.34am and how many were bought in the 45 minutes after 12.19pm.

Le_Kirk

confused_lady_001 wrote: »

@Le_Kirk
My defence statement was exactly as follows:

"I parked on the Nuneaton Newdegate Street car park on 26/04/2018!for approximately 30 minutes.

On arrival I was informed by two other vehicle owners that the NCP!payment machines were not working.

I personally checked both machines and can state categorically!that they were not accepting payment at that time. Hence it was!impossible for me to make payment.

On 08/05/2018 I wrote to NCP Ltd informing them of these!circumstances but they refused to accept that explanation."

That reads more like a Witness Statement than a defence. You still have time to read some standard defences written by Bargepole in the NEWBIE thread post # 2. At least you will know what you might be able to say when in the court. Unfortunately you cannot introduce NEW defence points but might be able to counter what the PPC says.

Have you seen this short video? (Courtesy of KeithP)...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=n93eoaxhzpU

confused_lady_001

Castle wrote: »

Does it show how many tickets were bought in the 45 minutes before 11.34am and how many were bought in the 45 minutes after 12.19pm.

Yes. 10 tickets bought between 11.02am and 11.27am, then another 10 tickets bought between 12.19pm and 1.04pm.

Coupon-mad

So averaging ten tickets bought per half hour (approx), yet just two between the almost an hour period between 11.27am and 12.19pm.

In that period you'd have expected to see EIGHTEEN tickets bought...!

I think all you can say is your honest account that both machines were not working, and that their evidence not only supports the contention that the machines were playing up during that hour with just two unproven 'payment entries' shown - WHICH MIGHT WELL HAVE BEEN BY PHONE OR CARD!!

You have no other defence except your honest account and pointing out the above and making the rep explain the lack of payments in that hour and to prove whether these were actually CASH payments or not. I bet they were not.

You might win on that basis, especially if their defence pack doesn't include any info about what to do if the machines are broken.

Look again through the evidence pack, have they covered that fact, have they shown a PDT machine with clear info about a phone helpline?

If not, then point that out to the Judge as well, and that you didn't actually do anything wrong as the 'contract was frustrated' by the Claimant's machines being broken.

Finally, if you feel the case is going against you, ATTACK THE ADDED COSTS SO AT LEAST THEY ARE STRUCK OUT!

Take along a printout from Debt Recovery Plus here:

https://www.debtrecoveryplus.co.uk/pcn-collection/

''We offer a ‘no collection, no fee service’, therefore our growth has been achieved by making successful collections, not by charging upfront fees''.

and call the operator out on their lies in the WS about £60 being able to be added. It can't be added because:

- the £60 was NEVER paid to any debt collector, and
- the £100 already includes the costs of the letters (the Beavis case covered that fact in the Supreme Court, where ParkingEye only got their £85 parking charge and could not have claimed that the cost of the letters were also 'damages' as they are part of the normal business model that the £100 is set to cover, plus a profit.

Does that make sense to you?

You would say, the low costs of a profit making regime that relies upon template letters costing less than £15 can't also be ''double recovered'' by describing the very letters that charge the penalty, as 'damages' to bolt on top again!

You can also say that a PDT car park with a broken payment machine is nothing like the free car park with a 2 hour parking licence then penalty, as was the case in ParkingEye v Beavis.

https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/parkingeye-vs-beavis/

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2013-0280-judgment.pdf

You need to understand how to 'distinguish' (set apart on the facts) your case from Beavis, so READ IT this weekend and ask us any questions, as the rep they send WILL mention it.