Fighting a subsidence claim - advice please

Sleepy.ears

I would really appreciate some help as to my options and best course of action for a home subsidence claim I am currently in.

3 years ago we put in a subsidence claim with our insurers which was quickly accepted. The loss adjuster initially did a drain survey and 12 months of crack monitoring. The drains were fine but the crack monitoring confirmed movement. They then proposed fixing the cracks. We objected because the house was clearly still moving, and painting over cracks wouldn't stop that or fix the real issue. The loss adjuster said putting a bit of mesh on the bricks and plastering over would hold the house together and they believed the movement had stopped.

We requested the crack measuring company to do another measurement where they confirmed the house was indeed still moving. The loss adjuster went ahead anyway and spent £40,000 with 3 months repair work. The cracks were literally coming back days after the builders repaired them. It was a joke and we complained and requested a new loss adjuster.

We were appointed a new member of staff but the same company. The new person appointed visited the house with the wrong details and wrong floor plan, and declared he thought the cause was wood shrinkage. This is a 100 year old house so the wood has long since settled, so we naturally disagreed. They eventually arranged bore holes, soil samples, and a new kind of monitoring that measures the actual movement rather than just cracks. Eventually they decided the movement was due to trees causing shrinkage and heave throughout the different seasons.

They have now cut down 7 mature trees, some 300 years old. In the 3 years, the house has literally fallen apart, and the appointed building contractor is estimated around £700,000 for repairs. We have never in 3 years had any communication from the loss adjuster other than when we directly complain. No paperwork, and no idea what is happening. The last communication was 6 weeks ago when they visited to make the final list of repairs schedule. Since then, nothing has happened.

After complaining again, they have finally turned around and said the quote from the appointed builder was too high so they want them to reduce it.

We have repeatedly asked for a new loss adjuster to be appointed as we have no confidence in them. And we repeatedly get told to give it a bit more time and it will all be ok. We are warned we will have to start the process from scratch if we change loss adjusters.

It has already been 3 years, and now we appear to be near the end (start of 12 months of repairs) it looks like they are trying to avoid paying out for all the repairs we believe need to be done.

Q. Can I insist on a new loss adjuster?
Would we really have to start over and do another 3 years of monitoring?
Should I appoint a loss assessor?
What can I actually complain about (wording) that can realistically give the insurer 8 weeks to respond with a satisfactory solution, before we go to the ombudsman?

The solution I want, is for my house to be fixed asap. The work should have started last month, which is already a year later due to the first incorrect diagnosis and repair plan.

Mitigating circumstances: my wife has cancer and the stress of living in a house that leaks every time it rains (directly on to our bed) is causing a lot of stress. As is dealing with what we think is an incompetent loss adjuster.

Apologies for the lengthy post, but hopefully the details will help with any advice we might receive.

Thank you.

eddddy

A Loss Adjuster is employed the Insurer. They are supposed to be independent, but tend to look after the insurer's interests more than yours. So they try to minimise the amount the insurer has to pay for repairs..

You should instruct a Loss Assessor who will be working for you - not for the insurer. They will look after your interests - so they will make sure that your house is repaired correctly.

You might have to pay the loss assessor's fees, but for a claim like yours, it may be worth it.

huckster

This may be too complex for general forum advice.

It sounds like the house is of considerable value given the amount estimated to cover the works required.

It is in your best interests to employ a professional. Whether it is a loss assessor who is qualified to deal with complicated structural building repair works or whether it is a structural engineer you contract to provide a report on the works required and to help with the Insurance claim.

This could end up with litigation against the Insurers and therefore it is vital you obtain your own reports on the condition of the property, what works are required and estimates of cost. Armed with the reports, you should send a copy to the Insurers head of claims and try to get them to help provide a way forward.

Sleepy.ears

Thanks for the advice from both. Yes, the house is valued quite high, however my personal situation isn't quite so rosy and I'm concerned about the costs of a personally appointed loss assessor. Especially as I hear conflicting opinions about their benefits. Aren't they incentivised to inflate the claim value because they are paid on a percentage; which can lead to long delays and disputes?

The insurance company have actually been quite good and my complaint or dissatisfaction is specifically with the loss adjuster. They just don't seem competent.

All I really want is my house to be repaired to the state it was in prior to the movement, so I can either live here without it falling apart, or sell it.

I'll leave this thread up in the off chance someone who is a little more familiar with a complex case like this happens by. I'll also try looking for some unbiased advice before contacting a loss assessor. While I'm not happy, I also don't want to create a worse situation by becoming antagonistic with the insurer and entering in to a long dispute, if it can otherwise be avoided.

Thank you and I appreciate the help.

uk1

I fear that this situation is far more complex than you can handle without legal help. As a first step your should send a short letter summarising that their actions so far have not stabilised your house, and that they have had sufficient time to have done so. The only acceptable outcome must be a stable property fully repaired. Say that because of this you have lost all confidence in the assessors. State that the only way forward is for them (your insurers) to fund an independent surveyors report APPOINTED BY YOU to provide a detailed opinion. If they refuse then it becomes more complex.

Hopefully you might also have legal cover in your insurance. This might place you in the unusual situation that you will be using your insurance to fight your insurers but life is strange sometimes. If you have legal cover then when writing the letter I sugesst above, then also ask them to confirm that your legal cover covers your legal expenses in pursuing them.

If you don't have insurance then you still need to have the situation managed by a solicitor. This isn't advice that will be welcome but a solicitor will proably advise you have a detailed surveyors report. All of this is going to be hugely costly - it might even end being over County Court limits and be a High Court issue - but I'm unable to see other options that will likely have a positive outcome as your insurers seem not to feel the need to be anything other than intransigent. Do keep the thread in touch with any progress.

Very best wishes for your wife and yourself.

eddddy

Sleepy.ears wrote: »

The insurance company have actually been quite good and my complaint or dissatisfaction is specifically with the loss adjuster. They just don't seem competent.

FWIW, That sounds like they might just be playing 'good cop / bad cop' with you.

i.e. The insurance company talk reasonably and fairly to you, but tell their Loss Adjuster to do the dirty work and aggressively keep the costs down (resulting in cut corners etc).

[Deleted User]

When you say you complained, did you submit a formal complaint via their complaints procedure?

Sleepy.ears

DELETED USER wrote:

When you say you complained, did you submit a formal complaint via their complaints procedure?

Yes, about 10 months ago. However, it was quite a weak complaint without us stating a specific measurable thing we wanted them to do in response. We wanted it noted that after around 5 informal complaints about the loss adjuster, that we were now making it formal and we wanted a new adjuster. They advised us that appointing a new loss adjuster would mean starting the entire claim over from scratch. As we were already 2 years in to the process, I didn't really want to do that, so we accepted their assurance that things would improve and we were being transferred to be cared for by the senior person at the loss adjuster company.

Essentially we accepted their solution. However, in reality, nothing has improved. Communication has still been non-existent, nothing actually get's done unless we deal with all the various sub-contracting companies ourselves, and now we are at the critical stage of supposedly finally getting the repairs made, they've gone silent once again and are back-tracking on what they previously assured us would be covered.

uk1

A loss adjustor is not a surveyor. In your OP you mentioned they continually gave opinions on surveying matters. Their role is to minimise the claim and work in the insurance company's best interests. A loss assessor does the mirror image job of representing an insured's interests but also needn't be a surveyor. You have inadvertently accepted a solution suggested by a non-expert simply working in the insurance company's best rather short-term interests to save money.

Your interests are long-term interests best represented by a surveyors detailed report.

Sleepy.ears

Yes, I can see I've made the mistake of trusting the insurance company and I've followed their advice since day one. I assumed they would employ a specialist to find the cause and correct solution for subsidence, but the company involved are probably familiar with subsidence but not specialists as such.

Naive of me.

I think I have to accept I need to employ my own specialist and face up to this taking potentially more years and lots more hassle to eventually resolve it.

uk1

Sadly, you are where you are.

I cannot over-state how important it is that a qualified surveyor is employed to write a detailed report before anything else is agreed or started. You should not panic just yet. I would start playing hard ball. State that you have received some initial advice that leads you to believe that as they are not responding acceptably to your concerns that you might need to consider litigating. Suggest that to avoid that and in order to resolve the matter amicably, that both you and the insurers should receive the reassurance of a proper independent surveyors report which they should pay for. You should agree that the surveyor should preferably be of your choice, but if they insist that they they employ one, then as long as they are qualified and insured then accept that. Insist that they are genuinely independant and not a staff surveyor employed by the insurer and not associated with the adjustor. I'm reasonably confident that a decent insurer would agree to this. You will then have a detailed expert report on what the problem is and what needs to be done and also both the protection of your insurer and the surveyor's insurance. I've been in a similar situation on a new-build dispute and it worked.

Good luck and best wishes.