NHS Overtime Question

Evie.S

This is probably a really silly question but here it goes! I’ve recently gone part-time, which I know means I don’t get overtime payments unless I go over 37.5 hours per week. Fair enough. However, any overtime up to full-time hours is described as being paid at “plain time rates” - this would still include any unsociable hours enhancements though, right? As in, I just accepted an overtime shift for the BH, it won’t be the double time it would normally be if I was full-time, but I will still get 60% enhancement for BH work, correct? I can’t imagine why working overtime on unsociable hours would be paid *less* than normal, but because I can’t see it clearly written anywhere I thought I’d make sure ��

Savvy_Sue

Only the employer can answer. Ask them!

Evie.S

I’m hoping other NHS staff has personal experience, pay services will only quote the guidelines back to me and I already know they don’t specifically answer my question

keithdc

Are you sure this is overtime rather than a bank contract?

Overtime is very rare in the NHS!!

Evie.S

Definitely overtime. Didn’t even realise it was rare, it’s quite common where I work, but I suppose that might be because we’re a critical care unit so have to maintain patient:nurse ratios and yet we’re chronically short staffed.

nicechap

Evie.S wrote: »

This is probably a really silly question but here it goes! I’ve recently gone part-time, which I know means I don’t get overtime payments unless I go over 37.5 hours per week. Fair enough. However, any overtime up to full-time hours is described as being paid at “plain time rates” - this would still include any unsociable hours enhancements though, right? As in, I just accepted an overtime shift for the BH, it won’t be the double time it would normally be if I was full-time, but I will still get 60% enhancement for BH work, correct? I can’t imagine why working overtime on unsociable hours would be paid *less* than normal, but because I can’t see it clearly written anywhere I thought I’d make sure ��

Evie.S wrote: »

I’m hoping other NHS staff has personal experience, pay services will only quote the guidelines back to me and I already know they don’t specifically answer my question

Evie.S wrote: »

Definitely overtime. Didn’t even realise it was rare, it’s quite common where I work, but I suppose that might be because we’re a critical care unit so have to maintain patient:nurse ratios and yet we’re chronically short staffed.

Your example is not at all uncommon. Its the product of many previous attempts at sorting out pay and conditions. Put simply, allowances don't count towards overtime rates. You sound like you are on appendix 2 pay deal, so instead of +25% unsocial (measured across all working hours), Saturday & nights are +30% and Sundays and BH is +60%.

It throws up bizarre things like take home pay from overtime (so over 37.5 hrs) is worth less than non- overtime pay. E.G in central London its difficult to recruit & retain front line staff - so they get allowances; +25% unsocial, +20% inner London. So your standard pay, which has the £12k tax free allowance is paid at 145%. Overtime is paid at 150% but is fully taxed so take home pay per hour is less.

At the end of the day you don't have to work BH monday, its overtime, so its your choice.

Savvy_Sue

I am frankly astonished that the pay dept can't or won't tell someone what their hourly rate for a particular extra shift will be paid at … although it sounds like I shouldn't be!

If they can't tell you, how are you supposed to know if you've been correctly paid? Never mind whether it's worth you doing it ...

Evie.S

Thank you for your input. I guess what I find confusing is that any extra shifts I work are technically overtime because they are over my contracted hours (23) but are not paid as overtime because they’re not over full-time hours. So what are they paid as? I know it’s not the usual 150% for overtime above 37.5 hours, but does that mean it’s paid as a normal shift, in which case I would get the normal +60% for a BH shift? Or does the “plain time rate” mean basic pay, with no unsociable hours? That seems unfair, considering it’s still an unsociable shift. I guess I’ll find out eventually, but I’d like to know in advance 🤷🏻!♀️

Manxman_in_exile

Evie.S wrote: »

Thank you for your input. I guess what I find confusing is that any extra shifts I work are technically overtime because they are over my contracted hours (23) but are not paid as overtime because they’re not over full-time hours. So what are they paid as? I know it’s not the usual 150% for overtime above 37.5 hours, but does that mean it’s paid as a normal shift, in which case I would get the normal +60% for a BH shift? Or does the “plain time rate” mean basic pay, with no unsociable hours? That seems unfair, considering it’s still an unsociable shift. I guess I’ll find out eventually, but I’d like to know in advance ����!♀️

Are you not confusing yourself by talking about "overtime" when it isn't overtime, it's excess hours above your part-time contracted hours?


Lets say you are contracted to work 20 hours per week. If you work 15 "excess" hours in a week (ie 35 hours in total) you only get paid at your basic rate for all of them. If any of those hours are worked where you are eligible for enhanced pay (eg weekends, nights, bank holidays) you get the enhancement on your basic rate. You only get overtime rates when you go over whole time equivalent hours (ie over 37.5 hours per week).


I can't believe your payroll provider or HR dept can't explain this!


EDIT: I left the NHS seven years ago, so apologies if I'm wrong and things are now even more complicated than they used to be...

downinja

Your thinking is correct, at least it would be for the NHS Trust I work for.

You would receive the wage premium for a BH, even if part time. Premium is the terminology current AAT examiners would use

Same for sat/sunday/unsociable.

aife

You should get unsocial hours because the enhancement relates to the fact that you're working , er, unsocial hours ( BH s etc) , not to whether it's in excess of your contracted hours
The NHS really don't make things clear , especially now everyone seems to have gone to using external payroll agencies (we don't even have a contact phone no. for ours)
Really amazed you're getting actual , proper overtime payments.Still gutted the unions let that be taken away without even putting up a fight. I hope your employer's decent because you really don't want to leave !