Portswood centre (another) - should I get personal?

BeachLlama

My partner took friends out to a local restaurant. They parked their 2 cars in the nearest car park as one friend has multiple disabilities (and thus a Blue Badge - but was the other car) and enjoyed the meal. They returned to the car park 16 minutes after the 2 hour period was up (see other threads about Portswood Centre car park operated by Britannia Parking) having enjoyed a conversation with the very lovely owners of the restaurant.


I have sent the standard inital appeal detailed in another thread, to which I added that Britannia should supply evidence of the authority that they have to operate in this area, because I could find none. I received a standard rejection by post which did not give evidence of their authority or of the grace period (simply "we have a 10 minute grace period at this car park", which is not evidence).


The period when the car was parked was in the middle of a cold Sunday when the car park was nearly empty. There are no payment machines and so it is impossible to extend the parking period (honestly, we'd be happy to pay!) and so a charge of £100 feels utterly indefensible.


I am composing my appeal to POPLA, largely based on lack of evidence of authority or of the grace period. I would like them to state who is the landowner (yes, this has been stated in another thread, but it is otherwise very difficult to discover) so that I can contact them to complain about Britannia's activity.



I will ask for evidence of loss incurred by Britannia, especially given the almost-empty-ness of the car park on Sundays in March. I have taken a photo of the car park on a Sunday (much better weather, so there are more cars but its still pretty empty).


I would also like to appeal on the grounds that it is not possible to extend the parking period, despite this being a car park serving resturants for which 2 hours is inadequate. Is this reasonable grounds for appeal?



My main question is should I also include the additional information about why my partner chose this car park over the nearby council one (which it turns out is free all day on Sundays!) owing to helping his disabled friend? Or that the overstay was wholly down to their politeness in chatting with the restaurant proprieters? I would word this 'the driver' so that I am not implicating any individual.



I have until 7th May to appeal. Thank you in advance for your input.

twhitehousescat

there are two grace periods , as you arrive (time to read signs and pay if needed) and one at the end of paid or free parking

If a driver is parking without your permission, or at
locations where parking is not normally permitted they
must have the chance to read the terms and conditions
before they enter into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If,
having had that opportunity, they decide not to park but
choose to leave the car park, you must provide them with
a reasonable grace period to leave, as they will not be
bound by your parking contract.
13.2 If the parking location is one where parking is normally
permitted, you must allow the driver a reasonable
grace period in addition to the parking event before
enforcement action is taken. In such instances the grace
period must be a minimum of 10 minutes.


4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the
private car park after the parking contract has ended, before
you take enforcement action. If the location is one where
parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end
of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.

twhitehousescat

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5995524/successful-popla-appeal-vs-britannia-parking-ltd-portswood-centre-southampton

MistyZ

I don't think the 'no ability to extend' point is worth trying. However I am sure that the 'no loss' and 'chatting with restaurant owners' are not going to make a blind bit of difference.

I'm never quite clear about whether or how to include mention of disability .....

As you suggest there are now quite a few of us who have been scammed at this car park. And twhitehousecat's link is spot on, great timing! And obviously you have done your homework here and are aware of Britannia's dodgy contractual status. Lead on landowner authority for sure. How about signage too? The signs are pretty poor there.

KeithP

How about having another "conversation with the very lovely owners of the restaurant"?

Ask them to use their influence to get the charge cancelled.

Fruitcake

"No loss" will not work at PoPLA.

Mitigating circumstances will not work.

Telling POPLA that a car's occupant deliberately delayed getting back to the car by chatting to someone is a bullet in the foot.

Use ALL available points from post 3 of the NEWBIES that are relevant.

Not the landowner
No standing to issue charges
Lack of grace periods - note the plural.
Inadequate signage

to name but a few

notaskyofearth

Hi there,

I'm working on being able to share my recent POPLA appeal which was not contested by Britannia (which means the fine is cancelled by default). In the meantime though, I wrote to recent and current agents for the property to ask them to cancel the charge. I discovered the following which I was able to include in my appeal:

Britannia Parking is not operating under contract with any company responsible for managing these premises. The management changed hands on 14th December 2018, from CBRE Ltd to KMP Solutions.

A senior executive from CBRE Ltd, confirmed that his clients “sold this property some time ago” and that CBRE is “no longer involved with its management.” The current agents for the landowner are a company called KMP Solutions. A very helpful representative from that company confirmed that they are “no longer on contract” with Britannia and have ceased correspondence with them owing to “all the complaints” they have received about them. He also told me that have "since served [Britannia] notice that [KMP] will not be renewing the contract and that they should begin decommissioning the site for the incoming parking firm".

So I recommend you write to both firms (easy to find email addresses via their websites) and include the replies as evidence. I asked both to intervene with Britannia to get the PCN waived as well but they claimed it was no longer in their gift to do so since the contract doesn't exist. I carried on pestering CBRE for a bit to see if they'd at least try anyway, since it appears to be their "old" contract that Britannia are using in an attempt to make their activities seem legitimate.

I think this is the key point myself, but I included a series of other points too, on advice from users of this forum, to make my appeal as long and cumbersome as possible for the PCN to respond to. Maybe the landowner authority point was a "slam dunk" but I suppose it's also possible that the rest of the appeal (19 pages) played a role in their giving it up.

notaskyofearth

My full appeal has now been shared in the thread linked above (post #3) with thanks to MistyZ

Umkomaas

since served [Britannia] notice that [KMP] will not be renewing the contract and that they should begin decommissioning the site

Good news.

for the incoming parking firm".

Bad news.

Same shiit, different day on its way.

A very helpful representative from that company confirmed that they are “no longer on contract” with Britannia and have ceased correspondence with them owing to “all the complaints” they have received about them.

They must be utterly naive if the think anything is going to change with a new parking firm being installed. :doh:

MistyZ

KeithP wrote: »

How about having another "conversation with the very lovely owners of the restaurant"?

Ask them to use their influence to get the charge cancelled.

Thing is, they won't be the landowner ... and of course the company that does manage the land does not currently have a contract with Britannia. Also the former land management company CBRE told me that only a few, rather small businesses are officially 'served' by the car park yet this is far from obvious because Portswood Centre Car Park is, well, in the centre of an area called Portswood.

There again, try everything OP. I may be wrong and the restaurant may have some influence.

notaskyofearth

Umkomaas wrote: »

Good news.


Bad news.

Same shiit, different day on its way.


They must be utterly naive if the think anything is going to change with a new parking firm being installed. :doh:

Yes, I'm sure you are right. I'll be letting the same person know about the outcome of the appeal and that I plan to publicise it and make further complaints. Maybe if it appears in the local press it might make them think twice about simply getting a different group of cowboys in?