We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
The Forum now has a brand new text editor, adding a bunch of handy features to use when creating posts. Read more in our how-to guide
Structural Engineer report
Comments
-
Which is complete rubbish.And as a buyer, I'd
a) explain that my surveyer's T&Cs do not let me show it to you, only to my legal advisors
I don't want mine. I want to know why yours is saying you should pay me less than you agreed to pay me.b) point out that if you want a survey, you can spend the best part of a thousand quid for your own
Yes, of course. Because I'd have nothing to hide.c) ask how a house sale can proceed if one side refuses to accept the other is telling the truth- would you want to provide me with independent attested evidence that you were not lying about anything in the house details you sent to my solicitors?
Except you're ignoring that the work may already be priced into the property. The valuation is key here.d) If I was negotiating a reduction because work needed doing, I'd happily show you quotations for the work that needed doing once I'd had people round to inspect and do quotes. That's what it's reasonable for you to ask for in such a negotiation.0 -
Which is complete rubbish.
I don't want mine. I want to know why yours is saying you should pay me less than you agreed to pay me.
Yes, of course. Because I'd have nothing to hide.
Except you're ignoring that the work may already be priced into the property. The valuation is key here.
It is not 'complete rubbish'; I don't care for it being implied I'm a liar. It is clear in my surveyor's T&Cs, and someone who worked for a surveyor has in a post above confirmed it as their regular firm's practice. I think you need to apologise. I did not say all surveyors say this, but that they may, and that some, including mine, do. And that is something any buyer willing to hand over a report ought to check first, lest the get into trouble.
Surveyors ought to be able to feel that they can say what they need to about a property without it all getting back to the seller. One surveyor years ago told us that a seller's DIY skills were so appalling that everything he had done needed doing again, and would cost more to do that if he hadn't touched it. the surveyor even advised us to make a condition of our offer that he didn't touch anything else in the house, and that we ought not to be specific about any problems in case the vendor went off and made them worse. How could he tell us that unless he could trust us not to pass all that on to the vendor? There has to be some sense of confidentiality between surveyor and client.
I was perfectly clear that a buyer may choose to supply a seller with evidence of the work needing to be done, even including quotations. A survey will not usually cost any work, so it's really not that helpful anyway. A valuation is irrelevant, as the value of the house to the buyer is all that counts. The valuation may be higher OR lower than they are willing to pay.
Are you seriously suggesting that you would be happy to pay for an independent professional witness to come to your house and confirm all the F&F list? I have never heard of such a thing, ad I as a seller would certainly not pay for such a thing. Most sellers expect the buyer to trust their word on it. Just as I'd expect any seller to trust my word re the survey.0 -
It is not 'complete rubbish'; I don't care for it being implied I'm a liar. It is clear in my surveyor's T&Cs, and someone who worked for a surveyor has in a post above confirmed it as their regular firm's practice. I think you need to apologise. I did not say all surveyors say this, but that they may, and that some, including mine, do. And that is something any buyer willing to hand over a report ought to check first, lest the get into trouble.
Can you advise what exactly the wording of the T and C is
I only ask because if it says anything like some of the one I have seen which says
"The client agrees to keep the report confidential disclosing its contents only to the
client’s professional advisors. In particular (but without limit) the client must not
disclose the whole or any part of the report to any person (other than a professional
advisor) who may intend to rely upon it for the purposes of any transaction."
If so It seems to be that one would have breached the Ts and Cs in any case by disclosing the contents to try and beat down the price.
Jumblenbumble0 -
For many years I worked for a Chartered Surveyor, and there was is a clause in any Report that it is for the person's use and their advisors who paid for the report.
I believe it is generally standard practice to include text at the start of professional reports stating that the report has been prepared for the (sole) use of the client. The reason for this is not that the report is some form of state secret, but usually related to the professional's liability insurance.And as a buyer, I'd
a) explain that my surveyer's T&Cs do not let me show it to you, only to my legal advisors....
By stating that the report is prepared for the client's use only the professional is seeking to limit their liability to the original client (with whom they have a contractural relationship) and seeking to exclude liability to third-parties (with whom they don't have a contractural relationship).
If you are told that the report is not for your use then it is harder to claim against the professional who prepared it, in the event your use of the report leads to you making a bad decision.
Although there might be something saying that the professional retained copyright over the content of the report, I would be very surprised if they attempted to prevent the client from showing the report to anyone other than their legal advisors.
For example, there isn't much point in the buyer obtaining a survey which they aren't allowed to show to their builder to get quotes for repair work. (a 'builder' is not a 'legal advisor')
"Idiot" is rather a strong term. It might be better to have a more complete understanding of what has happened in this case before using such words about a professional....and your beef is with whichever idiot sent them out without your permission.
OP, could you give us some idea what issues the Structural Engineer identified? Presumably there is some kind of structural defect if the report has caused you to get a builder to inspect the property (with a view to quoting for repairs?)
The reason why that is relevant is because....
...a Structural Engineer is a professional who has responsibilities above and beyond their contractural relationship with a client.You paid for it, I see no legitimate reason why the seller should be in possession of a copy of it without your express permission.
For example, if the SE has identified a potentially dangerous structural fault in the building then they have an ethical duty to inform the owner of their findings, regardless of their contract with the client (buyer). That would be a "legitimate reason" for the seller to have a copy of the report.
It is important to note that the wording at the start of reports (or the T&C's) that might exclude use of the report by third parties would not require the "express permission" of the client (buyer) for it to be shown to others. That "permission" would be reserved to the professional who prepared the report.
A client might request the professional to prepare a confidential report - where the client's "express permission" is required for further dissemination - but it is unlikely that a professional would agree to such strict terms, as it could place them in an ethically difficult position.0 -
Indeed. That clause places restrictions on the client (buyer) as to their use of the report, not on the professional who prepared the report, nor apparently on any third party into whose hands a copy of the report might fall.Jumblebumble wrote: »Can you advise what exactly the wording of the T and C is
I only ask because if it says anything like some of the one I have seen which says
"The client agrees to keep the report confidential disclosing its contents only to the
client’s professional advisors. In particular (but without limit) the client must not
disclose the whole or any part of the report to any person (other than a professional
advisor) who may intend to rely upon it for the purposes of any transaction."
If so It seems to be that one would have breached the Ts and Cs in any case by disclosing the contents to try and beat down the price.
Jumblenbumble
It would also preclude the client from coming to a site like this to ask for advice along the lines of "Just got my survey report and it says....."
Importantly, it also precludes sharing the contents of the report with family members (who are not also acting as 'professional advisors' to the client) - which in some circumstances might include joint purchasers of the property.
Clearly the intention is to limit the professional's liability to other parties who might rely on the contents of the report, not to keep the contents a state secret.0 -
Jumblebumble wrote: »Can you advise what exactly the wording of the T and C is
I only ask because if it says anything like some of the one I have seen which says
"The client agrees to keep the report confidential disclosing its contents only to the
client’s professional advisors. In particular (but without limit) the client must not
disclose the whole or any part of the report to any person (other than a professional
advisor) who may intend to rely upon it for the purposes of any transaction."
If so It seems to be that one would have breached the Ts and Cs in any case by disclosing the contents to try and beat down the price.
Jumblenbumble
IIRC it was something very like that. I'll look tomorrow If I can find it.0 -
My understanding of it is that you can tell someone that the report has revealed a problem, and what it is in general, but you can't quote it, or hand a copy over, to anyone but your legal advisors. Quotations by builders etc are what a buyer might reasonably share with a seller, not surveys. The cost of fixing a problem, or its extent, which is what is needed for negotiations, is identified by those, not by the survey. Bullying requests by EA and sellers for a copy of the survey are pretty pointless, even if they can be agreed to without breaking the T&Cs of the surveyor.Section106 wrote: »Indeed. That clause places restrictions on the client (buyer) as to their use of the report, not on the professional who prepared the report, nor apparently on any third party into whose hands a copy of the report might fall.
It would also preclude the client from coming to a site like this to ask for advice along the lines of "Just got my survey report and it says....."
Importantly, it also precludes sharing the contents of the report with family members (who are not also acting as 'professional advisors' to the client) - which in some circumstances might include joint purchasers of the property.
Clearly the intention is to limit the professional's liability to other parties who might rely on the contents of the report, not to keep the contents a state secret.
I gather that if a sale falls through, sometimes a surveyor will agree to a second buyer having a copy if the buyer who bought it agrees and is paid a sum, or will do the second one for less and refund a little to the original buyer. If it has been handed over willy-nilly to the seller, they could show it to any later buyer else for free, which is well out of order all round, both for the surveyor and the original buyer who paid for it.0 -
^^^ ""Idiot" is rather a strong term. It might be better to have a more complete understanding of what has happened in this case before using such words about a professional."
What term would you rather I used than the one I used for anyone who sent a report to someone who wasn't supposed to have it? I was deliberately avoiding terms that could be regarded as having a specific professional meaning. And I said " If they were sent them in error,", I also gave alternative scenarios.0 -
For me I'd express my annoyance in writing and expect some remuneration , but this is only if this is what has exactly happened .
Don't expect the entire cost back but a token amount would be suffice and then move on0 -
My understanding of it is that you can tell someone that the report has revealed a problem, and what it is in general, but you can't quote it, or hand a copy over, to anyone but your legal advisors. Quotations by builders etc are what a buyer might reasonably share with a seller, not surveys. The cost of fixing a problem, or its extent, which is what is needed for negotiations, is identified by those, not by the survey. Bullying requests by EA and sellers for a copy of the survey are pretty pointless, even if they can be agreed to without breaking the T&Cs of the surveyor.
I gather that if a sale falls through, sometimes a surveyor will agree to a second buyer having a copy if the buyer who bought it agrees and is paid a sum, or will do the second one for less and refund a little to the original buyer. If it has been handed over willy-nilly to the seller, they could show it to any later buyer else for free, which is well out of order all round, both for the surveyor and the original buyer who paid for it.
As a vendor if your are unwilling to share the report to prove it needs work, I would tell you either pay the price or I remarket.
Put yourself in their shoes, anyone could make stuff up on a report, you need proof and even then the vendor are under no obligation to drop the price"It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
G_M/ Bowlhead99 RIP0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 354K Banking & Borrowing
- 254.3K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 455.3K Spending & Discounts
- 247K Work, Benefits & Business
- 603.7K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 178.3K Life & Family
- 261.2K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards