Letter Before Claim - VCS

q2uantum

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Read AdamBuzz14's actual court transcript, now linked on his thread. It shows a Judge debunking the 'red card' misleading model and also finding that VCS signs were unclear (different car park I expect but it will help you find the form of words you need, that a Judge might use...).

Take a wage slip with you as proof of loss of leave/salary that you can claim as costs when you win.

Take proof that you did serve the WS & evidence to VCS, as their rep might lie.

Thanks coupon-mad,. I have had a read of it.

I also have proof of postage if witness statement and a spare copy for the Judge in case he has misplaced his/hers 😉.

Also have my last payslip with me 👍

q2uantum

Btw the forum needs to change its time zone as I've just noticed it says I posted that at 2.01pm which nearly gave me a heart attack!!!

q2uantum

Ok looks like I'm second in, the judge has 2 cases both VCS!.

A solicitor has come over to introduce himself and has advised he is just here to summarise to the judge and answer anything she asks. Fair play to him he has been through the process with me and just said don't worry about anything and it could go either way!.

He's then went to talk to his buddy who's doing the other VCS case.

I believe the judge is Deputy Judge Dobson but I'll confirm it later.

I can't be that nervous I've decided as I'm posting on here ��

nosferatu1001

Dont worry!
Remember - if you win, to talk about your costs.
Its easy to forget!

q2uantum

Very quick update,..... After 2 hours and 20mins, including being asked to leave for 10mins whilst the Judge gathered her thoughts on it all.....


I WON !!!!!

I'll do a full report later tonight on the laptop rather than my phone.

But many many many thanks to all that advised me on here over the last 5 years!!

Umkomaas

q2uantum wrote: »

I WON !!!!!

Great stuff. Look forward to your report later. :beer:

ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!

upstanding

Well done - historic case bites the dust - here's hoping all the Courts will now treat 2015 cases with the disdain they deserve. Hope you've hit them hard with your claim for costs :)

beamerguy

Well done :beer:

The sad thing is that VCS will keep wasting the courts time with fake claims.

q2uantum

Hi All,

So heres my court report as promised.


Court = Sheffield
Case Number = F9QZ7H12
Date = 06/11/19 (Date of PCN was 17/01/15)

So I arrived quite early at the court, so paid for 4 hours parking, and ended up sat in the car for 25 minutes due to how early I was.

I went in to the court house at 13:30 (Hearing was stated at 2pm), and went through the security scans/checks and asked if they could advise where I needed to go. A very jolly security guy pointed me in the right direction and advised that the Usher was probably on lunch so to take a seat at the far end and wait for him to return. At around 1.45 the Usher appeared and asked if I wanted to check in (There was only one other person there at this time). So I checked in and I was next to the bottom of a 2 page listing, so I thought I would be in for a long wait!

At around 1.55pm with the room now having about 8 people in it, 2 guys arrived and went to the usher, and they advised they were solicitors for VCS. One of the said he was the solicitor for my case, and the Usher pointed him to my direction to advise I was here. He then came over to me and introduced himself as Mr Mcpharlane and advised he didn't work for VCS but had been assigned this case.

He then asked if I was used to this sort of thing, which I just answered "No its my first one", he then proceeded just to advise me what the process would be. He advised that if he won they would probably get the £100 original fine, and depending on what judge it was then this would depend on whether they got the £60 they had asked for plus the interest of around £12. He also advised that he would also ask for HIS fee to be paid at £180 but also said that 99.9% of the time the judge would reject this.

He also stated that if everything was civil it would be over and done with one way or another within 30 mins. He then walked off and talked to the other solicitor he came in with.

I found out that it would be Deputy District Judge Dobson that would be hearing my case and that she was only doing to the 2 x VCS cases that were on that day. The other guy went in so I guessed we would be second in.

At 2.35 the other guy left, and we were called in at 2.40pm. DDJ Dobson asked us to be seated and then went through the rules etc of court and advised that it was a relaxed environment but that she had total control of the court proceedings.

Mr McPharlane was then advised he would be going first and was asked if he had my Witness Pack, which he advised that he had not been given it. DDJ Dobson asked if I had posted it as I could see she had my Ring Binder folder in front of her as my witness pack. I advised yes and showed her the proof of postage that I had for it. She looked over this and advised Mr McPharlane and she agreed that this was proof of postage. She was just deciding that she could give him HER copy of it to read as she hadnt made any notes on it yet, so I advised her I had brought a couple of spare copies if she preferred he had one of mine. She thanked me for being so organised, and advised that she was happy with that. I thought long and hard about offering a copy to the solicitor but decided that it could stand me in good stead with the DDJ, which is seemed to do.

Mr Mc then went through in summary their agruements against my defence statement with regards to POFA 2012 (Keeper liability), the signage and also kept mentioning the fact that there was a myparkingcharge.co.uk notice on my windscreen, which I knew was incorrect as I had a copy of the PCN with me. He even denied that the PCN I had was a PCN.... Even though it had Parking Charge Notice printed on the top of it!!. He also advised they had provided a copy of the landowners agreement.

DDJ then asked if there was any points that he had covered that I would now agree with. As I had stated in my witness statement that I was now the driver, I advised that I would not be persuing the route of Driver/Keeper Liability, and then would concende that the landowners agreement, even though only stating was for 12months initially, did have a section in it about auto renewing, but stated I wasnt happy that there was strict proof that it hadn't been cancelled.

The DDJ accepted these, and then rather than me summarising my witness statement, she basically did it for me. On quite a few occasions she stated "so I presume what you are implying in this statement is..." Which the majority of the time I agreed with her, as she obviously had more knowledge on certain parts than I did. On a couple of occasions I acually said No, and explained my own thoughts on it, and the reasons for it, which see seemed quite impressed with.

Anyway without this rambling on too much, so spent around 20 mins on my point about VCS misquoting and tried to mislead her with the Vine v Waltham FOrest case, and was quite short with Mr Mc regarding this. She even asked him for a copy of it so she could read what I had put on the actually judgement (I had actually put a copy of it in my witness pack. Her arguement was over that they had stated it had set a precendent when actually it was nothing to do with Contracts was to do with Trespass. This conversation between them seemed to go on for ages!

I continued through the signeage missing, vandalised, covered in IVY etc and worked through my other points of the PCN not displaying the date, and also that their statement mentioned a RED card on the winscreen and not a PCN amd that Mr MC kept referencing this when in fact it wasn't there to start with. The DDJ even laughed when I poitned out that even though Mr MC said it wasnt a PCN, then why did it state Parking Charge Notice on the top of it.

After what seemed an eternity going through my Witness statement, including very briefly the part of Abuse of Process, it was only brief as the DDJ said she understood where I was coming from and then tackled Mr Mc about trying to double charge, which he bumbled his way through.

At this point we are now at around 3.45pm, so have done around 1 hour. The DDJ asked if Mr Mc had any responses to my points which he did by trying to ask if I remembered seeing 2 certain signs on the date it happened, as it was 2015 I simply stated that due to how long ago I cant answer that honestly as I dont remember. He then queried a few other things which I can't remember the full details of, and had another long discussion with the DDJ over the wording on the signeage etc.

At this point the DDJ asked if we minded if she had a short time to "gather her thoughts"on the matter and asked if we minded leaving the room while she did. So we went back out to the waiting area which was now deserted as it was around 4.10. after around 15 minutes we were called back in and the DDJ summarised her findings.

The notes I made from this were rushed but here they are as I wrote them!

DDJ Agreed that there was a contract with the landowner but that certain terms were clearly now unlawful (Clamping) and needs updating - but agreed the contract existed

DDJ stated that there was no cleary defined area that VCS covered in the car park and there was no boundry plan available at the site

DDJ Accepted that there was definetly some missing signs and ivy covered signs on the date in question, and that there was no signs on the entrance to the car park.

DDJ was not satisfied that there was sufficient signeage on the site and on the entry to the car park, and that VCS had been contradictive in their evidence as it stated there was signs on the entrance to the car park when there wasnt.

I then started to listen rather than write but she was also mentioned that the wording on the sign was ambigious and in the rule of law if you can read it two ways then the law always sides on the Defendents interpretation of it.

She then advised that she was dismissing VCS's claim and the main 3 points would be this:

PCN - Does not compy with relevant requirements (POFA) - Date missing from it is not accepable, and that just Grove Road was too vague due to other parking available on that street.
Visabilty of the signs was poor with at least one missing and others covered in folliage and vandalised.
Construction/Layout of the signeage is ambigious and poorly worded (This was with regards to the visualised frame around the VALID PERMIT HOLDERS part of the sign that anyone, including her, would interperate it as only been valid for a permit holder, and not how VCS/Mr MC interpretated it.

I then raised my Costs which she was happy to look at.... this took another 15mins, as she agreed the half days wage, mileage and parking costs. But then really thought hard about the extra costs I had tried to claim (another £110 for litgant in person and postage/stationary costs). She advised she could take this either way and really though long and hard about it. In the end she decided not to award this part to me, but warned Mr MC that if she starts to see a pattern of old claims from VCS being dragged back up then she would 100% hand over extra costs to any future ones. I thanked her and left the court room.

I then had to run back to my car as I realised my parking would soon be up and made it back with around 6 minutes to spare! Funny thing was is that Mr Mc advised that his had ran out 25 minutes ago so would probably have got a ticket.... Irony!


Hopefully this hasnt bored you too much and I hope that it helps other people in this same situation.

If it wasnt for this forum then I would have probably caved, but I will now be hanging around here and seeing if I can help anyone else with any questions on their threads!

Redx

fantastic job and superb court report

you have not bored me , its great to see it finally won and especially after I advised you to use a driver led first witness defence and WS instead of hiding behind POFA and being embarassed by the question "were you the driver"

a classic case where you were the only person present on the day , first person witness to all that transpired and willing to defend yourself in person in a court room

my congratulations , and a good lesson to anyone else with court cases of a similar nature

spanked in their own backyard !!!! of all places