Buying a flat. Downstairs neighbour's huge summerhouse/office in shared garden, legal?

passthepigs

Apologies if this isn't the best forum for this. I'm not sure where else to start as I don't want to escalate with the local authority for the time being and until I do that they can't help much.

About the Shed
We're buying a purpose built, end of terrace 2 flat maisonette, with a shared garden. Our potential new downstairs neighbours have giant shed / summerhouse on their half of the back garden. Taking up their entire half of back the garden in fact. It is probably under 2.5m tall which I know is important. But it comes right up to the property boundary of our slice of the garden. It is less than 50cm away from the boundary wall on the other (on the other side of which is a residential street), right to the back of the garden and about 2m from the property itself.

There are windows from it and a door facing onto our side of the garden (as well as another door on the end accessed from their property.

I also read that you can't build anything that takes up 50% or more of your outside space, which would be 25% of the shared garden?

The Conundrum
It may not be an issue at all, if they are nice people we'll come to an agreement most likely. We have no immediate plans for the garden...
...BUT if down the line we built a fence or our own shed we would block the light into this shed.
Also, generally, the garden would feel open and nicer (even if you're not strictly allowed to lay on half of it) if it were open.

I'm not convinced that it is kosher, I also don't want to fall out with these guys before we even move in by building control coming around and removing their shed on our behest. But I would like to know where we stand legally.

At the moment it seems like an inconsiderate move on their part, perhaps the previous owners or tenants didn't use the garden much and they took advantage.

There is a shared side garden as well where we aren't sure the current usage is in line with what is on the land registry.

need_an_answer

Within the documentation you have regarding the purchase is there any mention of what the garden is to be used for?

Are there any restrictions over you putting up a fence?

Read the documents you may find covenants that prevent you dividing the garden with a fixed fence.

What does it actually say about a shed going on the other half...sometimes garden sheds don't count under permitted development simply because they are movable structures.


In the same way you could find it perfectly acceptable to put a layzee spa on your half of the garden and sit in it watching your neighbours work....neither structure is not allowed,its probably more a case of what floats one person as acceptable may not be to the next...


You need to establish if its permitted in respect of the whole piece of garden,but if it is I doubt you can challenge what they choose to put in there if unrestricted as long as it doesn't come across onto your portion of the garden,which by what you describe it doesn't.

Its very unfair to go into the purchase expecting the neighbour to remove the shed simply because you think the garden would "look" better without it.
That's a sure fire way to get on anyones nerves.

If you wish to discuss it at a later stage with the neighbour then I suspect you are buying the wrong property...you need to be looking not at a shared garden but freehold and yours to do as you please with.

AnotherJoe

Does someone live in it?
Is it used as an office?
A music studio?

A quiet artists studio?
Is there a business running out of it? Multiple people coming and going and parking? Deliveries?
Have you been to this property in the daytime and been able to establish whats going on?



Its tough enough to get into legal disputes with neighbours, so avoiding a dispute by not buying this particular flat would seem like a plan to me. Plenty of others for sale.
If you are still very keen on it then ask your (potential) sellers. Have they grassed them up to the council and nothings been done?

passthepigs

Does someone live in it?
Is it used as an office?
A music studio?
A quiet artists studio?
Is there a business running out of it?

Best guess is a home office, I did a viewing in the day time a few weeks ago and the windows were open and otherwise quiet.

Its tough enough to get into legal disputes with neighbours, so avoiding a dispute by not buying this particular flat would seem like a plan to me.

The garden isn't a deal breaker to be perfectly honest, unless they're bad people then I'd imagine we can work something out. If they are bad then we can always build a shed in front of their windows! This is more about understanding what our rights are and if they've taken the mick.

Fire_Fox

More likely to be a Planning issue than Building Control. What the structure is used for is highly relevant. Read the long lease, check guidance on the Planning Portal and your local council's website.

need_an_answer

passthepigs wrote: »

The garden isn't a deal breaker to be perfectly honest, unless they're bad people then I'd imagine we can work something out. If they are bad then we can always build a shed in front of their windows! This is more about understanding what our rights are and if they've taken the mick.

So look at it logically.
If its legal you will trump them with something else in the garden.
If its not legal you will try to enforce the removal of it.

That doesn't sound as if its the beginnings of a beautiful neighbour friendship.

They may well have maximised the use of the garden space as they are entitled to in the same way as they and you can both drown out conversations with loud music as your neighbour dispute heightens and when you come to sell that will need to be declared on the property forms!


Never buy a property expecting to change the views of those you live around.

passthepigs

If its legal you will trump them with something else in the garden.
If its not legal you will try to enforce the removal of it.

You're misunderstanding me slightly. I merely want to be armed with some more information for when we meet them. I want to talk to them fairly if there is a legal issue, I don't want to force them to demolish an expensive pet project if we can come to a more neighbourly agreement.

If its legal and they're good people then that is that nothing to be done anyway.
If its not legal and they're good people we will come to an amicable compromise about the use of the shared space.

If they're bad people then we'll either pull out or let our solicitors deal with it.

hazyjo

passthepigs wrote: »

I don't want to force them to demolish an expensive pet project if we can come to a more neighbourly agreement.

Think this is the thing people are confused over. What else is there?! Either it's demolished or it's legal. I really can't see another option.


Share the building?!


Either way, it would get my back up as your neighbour. Why on earth would you want to start off like that? If it's in their garden and you don't like it, buy elsewhere. Legal or not. If you were already living there and they put it up without discussing with you, then I'd say differently.

kazwookie

Read the paperwork

If it is on their part of the garden, and used as a summer house / shed there is very little you can do about it.

If it is bothering you now, I suggest you look for another property.

AdrianC

passthepigs wrote: »

I also read that you can't build anything that takes up 50% or more of your outside space, which would be 25% of the shared garden?

I suspect you're thinking of permitted development - which allows something to be built without planning permission. With PP, it could be the entire garden. It would regard the property as a whole, so doesn't care that the garden is shared - so 50% of the garden is "their half".

BTW, I assume you mean the garden is divided 50/50, rather than "shared"? Because if it is "shared", then there is no "our/their half".

Do you know when it was constructed? Even if PP would have been needed, and wasn't applied for, there's a limit of a few years after which it cannot be enforced. Speaking to the freeholder is more likely to be your constructive way forward, unless the freeholder is already well aware and approves.

Or... (radical thought, I know...) you could just leave them be and buy a different flat instead, one where you don't need to start hacking the neighbours off by objecting to the established status quo the minute you move in...

need_an_answer

passthepigs wrote: »

You're misunderstanding me slightly. I merely want to be armed with some more information for when we meet them. I want to talk to them fairly if there is a legal issue, I don't want to force them to demolish an expensive pet project if we can come to a more neighbourly agreement.

If its legal and they're good people then that is that nothing to be done anyway.
If its not legal and they're good people we will come to an amicable compromise about the use of the shared space.

If they're bad people then we'll either pull out or let our solicitors deal with it.

I don't believe I am misunderstanding you.
It is clear you have an agenda or vision for the whole garden to be as you desire it.

You are only purchasing into a share of it so therefore cannot dictate how your neighbours use the portion that is assigned to them.


There will however be a lease that has the definitions of what is acceptable on the piece of garden.


What does that document say about the erection of a movable shed and the erection of a static fence...that's your starting point and possibly your end point too.