URGENT - CLaim form, Advise regarding Defence

cancer29

dropbox.com/s/i7hewf1yt6v53hp/20190419_122708.jpg?dl=0
dropbox.com/s/xzwv7zxxiwmclki/20190419_122650.jpg?dl=0
dropbox.com/s/bnrxni1ve1g5l5z/20190419_122913.jpg?dl=0

KeithP

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i7hewf1yt6v53hp/20190419_122708.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xzwv7zxxiwmclki/20190419_122650.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bnrxni1ve1g5l5z/20190419_122913.jpg?dl=0

That's better - Cancer29 rules.

cancer29

Thank you Keith P , so with these pics do I still have basis for a defence? as wouldnt those signs constitute as clear signage from Claimants point of view?

Coupon-mad wrote: »

No keeper liability, then, as this is not 'relevant land' as you will have seen by reading any other station car park thread.

How have you missed the POFA and the fact it doesn't apply on railway car park land?

Could someone give me guidance where I can get this info, looked into POFA but with all the points I seem to be missing the keeper liability, as most of the points say that PPC can send PCN to the keeper as long as they follow the rules, such as the 14 day notice and then the subsequent letters, sorry for being thick, I guess its my panicking stage

Coupon-mad

Unbelievably small print t&cs. That 3rd photo shows maybe 1000 words or more! A driver cannot possibly read those t&cs, and your first photo at the PDT machine doesn't show the £100 tariff in large font listed anywhere.

Only the middle link shows a sign with a larger font £100 on it (DO NOT USE THAT PIC IN EVIDENCE LATER, AT WS STAGE!) and yet the T&Cs are utterly tiny by comparison.

You might want to compare the letter sizes with the mandatory requirements in the BPA CoP. I would if I were you - and mention the CoP in defence.

That signage is not 'clear, brief and prominent' at all.

You can certainly argue that a driver paying at the machine is not given adequate notice of the £100 penalty for any conduct except failure to input their full VRN!

Look what it says - at the point of sale at the PDT machine, that single breach is the ONLY thing that is listed as being able to give rise to £100 charge...am I wrong?

And that sign with the tiny print t&cs, it would be really handy if you could get close up shots over the coming weeks before WS and evidence stage of any t&cs that refer to railway byelaws, as that would be useful in painting a clear picture of land 'under statutory control' (no keeper liability then).

And re 'not relevant land':

https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/byelaws/

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

3 (1) In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than—
...
(c) any land (not falling within paragraph (a) or (b)) on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control.

3(3) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (1)(c) the parking of a vehicle on land is “subject to statutory control” if any statutory provision imposes a liability (whether criminal or civil, and whether in the form of a fee or charge or a penalty of any kind) in respect of the parking on that land of vehicles generally or of vehicles of a description that includes the vehicle in question.

3 (4) In sub-paragraph (3) ''statutory provision'' means any provision (apart from this Schedule) contained in—
(a) any Act (including a local or private Act), whenever passed; or
(b) any subordinate legislation, whenever made, and for this purpose ''subordinate legislation'' means an Order in Council or any order, regulations, byelaws or other legislative instrument.

And here are the Railway Byelaws:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4202/railway-byelaws.pdf

Which have a whole section creating byelaws penalties for:

14. Traffic signs, causing obstructions and parking

Thus, this land is covered by byelaws that regulate parking. So, it is land which is 'under statutory control' and the POFA does not apply, and liability CANNOT pass from the driver to the registered keeper.

So, you defend as registered keeper.

I suggest you urgently edit your first post about who might have...parked/overstayed...!

Coupon-mad

Here's some more for you to read, the DFT Guidance on Sch4 of the POFA:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/9155/guidance-unpaid-parking-charges.pdf

4. On what type of land does Schedule 4 apply?
4.1 The provisions in Schedule 4 are intended to apply only on private land in England and Wales. Public highways are excluded as well as any parking places on public land which are either provided or controlled by a local authority (or other government body). Any land which already has statutory controls in relation to the parking of vehicles (such as byelaws applying to airports, ports and some railway station car parks) is also excluded.

cancer29

Thank you Coupon- Mad for pointing me in the right direction and all your valuable points. I am sorry that I wasn't clear with the pictures , the middle pic with the 100£ fine is on a board right next to the PDT machine and there is a bigger board nearer the entrance stating the same but I see your point regarding the small print on the T&C board and will take a closer picture of it for the WS. Thank you once again for all the effort and guidance

Coupon-mad

Just as important surely is the point about the left had sign by the PDT machine creating a parking charge ONLY for one breach - not putting in the full VRN.

Try searching the forum for railway byelaws defence true and you might find one.