[Help!] Do I have enough evidence to take my live-in landlord to small claims court?

G_M

Wanderingpomm wrote: »

It sounds like you are a lodger not a tenant

Yes.

Yes, a world of difference. Firstly, your contract is not a legal tenancy.,
correct. It is a legal 'Licence to Occupy'.

and Joe is not your LL.
Wrong. Joe IS your landlord. You are Joe's lodger

You are just a lodger, and lodgers have [STRIKE]next to no[/STRIKE] fewer rights: you can be given notice at any time, without reason, and be asked to leave with minimal notice.
That depends on the contract between LL and lodger. If the contract (licence) specifies a 6 week notice period, for example, then the lodger is entitled under contract law, to 6 weeks notice.

The distinction is that in addition to any rights under the relevant contract, a tenant also has statutory rights, ie rights granted by the law which cannor be taken away.

None of the statutory legal protection enjoyed by tenants apply to you.
Re the utility bills, then if your name is also on those bills, you are jointly and severally liable for the whole bill, not just 50%. In the absence of Joe, the suppliers will pursue you alone for any arrears.

So far as the utility companies are concerned, yes, if your name is on the bill they can pursue you for payment. However, since you said

The contract stated that all bills were included in my rent, which I have paid promptly and in full.

so if you were forced to pay the utility cpmapnies, you could claim the cost back from Joe based on your contract.
Quite why you agreed to have your name added to the utility accounts if bills were included in the rent is a mystery to me, but your contract seems clear.

he has lived there for 36 (3 years) since he last renewed his contract.

You have edited your first post, removing a reference to Joe living there for 6 years. Why? This is a significant fact and potentially doubles your (legal) liability!

triple_eggs

Cheers for the responses. I know it might seem like a fairly small problem compared to all of the injustices in the world, but I don't understand the legal side of all of this, so it's nice to have guidance from people who know more.


My name is not on the bills, only Joe's name is on the bills. The contract with our names on it states that bills are included.


The contract does state an 'average' monthly price for bills, and Joe claims that the bills were 'above average', and therefore I am liable?


I'm not sure I did say that Joe had lived there for 6 years, I wrote '36' months, and then edited to add '3 years' after you mentioned 6 years the first time.


My deposit to Joe was £355, his deposit to his landlord was £550.


I have told many times over the past few weeks that I will accept £300 because I don't want the hassle. He is now refusing to pay me anything because I have 'threatened him' on WhatsApp by stating that I would take him to court if we couldn't settle it between ourselves, and asking for a forwarding address.


He has decided to add the TV license to the deductions he is making, although there is no mention of this in our contract.


I have also asked him for a schedule of deductions from my deposit, he hasn't provided me with one yet. He has said he would email me one, but won't give me a deadline.

Honeylife

Others have explained the 'Lodger' difference and they are correct.

I am not sure what you signed, whether it was a Licence Agreement or what?

I will add; if the documentation says Bills are included then the TV Licence is included plus Water, Electric, Gas, Council Tax and these days the Wifi. If the documentation says Utilities are included then technically the TV licence is not included as it is not a Utility but an optional Bill but you should only be paying a portion for the time you were in residence.

Joe may disappear so if you do win your case, and you do have a good case, you may have to use court bailiffs to track him down to recover this relatively small sum. All of this takes time. Time is money. Do the maths! How many hours a day sending emails, whats apps, letters, conversations on MSE forum, letters to court, more than likely employing court bailiffs, again more calls, emails over several weeks, maybe months, as they try to find him. All those hours X £minimum wage! It just doesn't add up.

I would suggest you send him a Letter Before Action simply stating that you will take him to the small claims court for recovery and the sum you expect to receive within 14 days of the receipt of the LBA. Sometimes that is an effective nudge.

But from the sounds of it Joe doesn't have your money and Joe is no longer your friend.

On the other hand, Joe maybe aware that it is a small sum and is actually hoping/expecting you to walk away. Looking at from the principle of the transaction, pursuing this through the small claims court, it could be lesson to him that he should honour his financial arrangements.

You alone will have to decide if this is financially worth taking any further for a £300 refund.

G_M

triple_eggs wrote: »

My name is not on the bills, only Joe's name is on the bills. The contract with our names on it states that bills are included.
then the utiliy companies cannot bill you.
and based on your contract with Joe, noe can Joe


The contract does state an 'average' monthly price for bills, and Joe claims that the bills were 'above average', and therefore I am liable?
Does the contract define 'average'?
Or have you been shown, say, 3 years of bills from before you moved in (ie to establish 'average)?
If not 'average' is just a word with a subjective meaning.


I'm not sure I did say that Joe had lived there for 6 years, I wrote '36' months, and then edited to add '3 years' after you mentioned 6 years the first time.
my mistake. I guess I mis-read


My deposit to Joe was £355, his deposit to his landlord was £550.

I have told many times over the past few weeks that I will accept £300 because I don't want the hassle. He is now refusing to pay me anything because I have 'threatened him' on WhatsApp by stating that I would take him to court if we couldn't settle it between ourselves, and asking for a forwarding address.
whatsApp is not an appropriate way to communicate.
Either do it amicably face-to-face, or formally by letter.


He has decided to add the TV license to the deductions he is making, although there is no mention of this in our contract.
Does it menton 'bills' or 'utilities'?

I have also asked him for a schedule of deductions from my deposit, he hasn't provided me with one yet. He has said he would email me one, but won't give me a deadline.

Then send a 'Letter Before Action giving him a deadline.


Then decide whether to follow up with court action or walk away.

Honeylife

triple_eggs wrote: »

My name is not on the bills, only Joe's name is on the bills. The contract with our names on it states that bills are included.


The contract does state an 'average' monthly price for bills, and Joe claims that the bills were 'above average', and therefore I am liable?


.

Just to pick up on this again. Bills are included in your 'contract' but then there is a qualification of some sort on your 'contract' and you apparently had not seen the previous 12 months of bills to know what the 'average' usually is? Then Joe said they were 'above average'. Have you seen the past years bills anyhow? Think about it. Of course they would be 'above average' as on your moving in there were TWO people using utilities not ONE! Joe is blustering and talking absolute nonsense to get you to cover the most likely unpaid Bills (in his name only) from the accommodation.

Ignore anything he says about Bills.

Agree with G_M on Communicating by WhatsApp not appropriate, email or hard copy letter is the best way.

tlc678910

Hi,
Personally I would not bother to pursue this - if you decide to out of the principle then I admire your energy. I would think Joe is a **** but what goes around will come around. Bide your time and when he gets in a sticky situation or needs your help you will know what to say. Don't pretend even to yourself that such a small amount of money will cloud your future .. it won't. Do a few days overtime if you can get any. Move on.
Tlc