[Help!] Do I have enough evidence to take my live-in landlord to small claims court?

triple_eggs

I am Joe's lodger. I have a signed contract.
Joe is Dave's tenant. I don't know what their contract is.



My landlord is refusing to return my deposit and continues to argue that I should pay 1/2 of all fees, which I disagree with. I have offered to pay 1/7 of all charges as I lived there for 4 months (round up to 6) and he has lived there for 36 (3 years) since he last renewed his contract.

I did not take photos as I knew my landlord well and did not think he would do this to me, especially since I left my room and shared areas in a better condition than I found them.



I had previously lived with my parents while I renovated a dilapidated house nearby, however my dad suddenly died and my mum went through a dark stage where she got frequently and irrationally angry with me, so I decided it would be best for both of us if I moved out as a lodger with a colleague (Joe), who, with his landlord's (Dave) permission sublet a room to me. I moved back home to find a (much!) better job, but my wife still lives in the city because she hasn't found a job here yet.


I moved in on the 18th of September 2018, and paid a deposit of £355. The contract stated that all bills were included in my rent, which I have paid promptly and in full. I moved out on the last day of February, 2019. Joe asked to keep my deposit until he moved out, a month after me, so that he could charge me my fair share of any fees the landlord charged.


Joe asked me to go to Dave's inspection for him because he had a bad back. During the inspection, Dave said he was unhappy with the condition of the house with respect to how it was three years ago, when Joe renewed his contract, but did not think it had degraded any further in the 6 months I was there, and that my personal space was the cleanest area in the house. He has sent me written confirmation of this and stated that in his opinion, Joe should return my full deposit. I have Dave's full name, personal address, and phone number.



I have had a continuing WhatsApp discussion with Joe where he keeps refusing to itemise the charges, but comes up with weird new charges such as 'TV License' (??? not in contract) and to pay bills after I moved out (???). Joe refuses to provide me with a forwarding address.



Do I have enough to win a small claims case? I have worked so hard to build a house for my wife and (future) kids, I have exhausted my savings and need that deposit back to finish the work.

G_M

Am I right that 'Joe' rents the property under an AST from 'Dave'?
Joe is Dave's tenant?
Joe has been a tenant there for 6 years.
You moved in as Joe's lodger 4 months ago?

By 'fees' I assume you are referring to deductions Dave (Joe's landlord) is proposing to make from Joe's deposit to cover..... cleaning? damage? unspecified issues?

1) Clearly you are not responsible for the deterioration from 6 years ago to today. Tht is Joe's liability.
2) But you are responsible for issues arising in the 4 months you lived there.
3) If you do not have a clear breakdown of 2) above, you are not liable
4) if the issues listed to you are the same as those listed by Dave to Joe (ad assuming they are valid), then there is an argument for saying you should contribute a proportion (6 years = 72 months, so 4/72s or 1/18th of the total.
5) but 4) above assumes the issues occurred in a steady way spread over the 72 months- if, say, damage was done in the first year, you would not be liable for that. And if, as you say, you have evidence "that my personal space was the cleanest area" then again, your liability is reduced.

So yes, on the face of it, it seems you have a fair case. I say 'fair' as opposed to 'good' because to sue Joe, you need to
6) know where he is, and
7) be able to produce sufficient evidence to counter anything he says to justify his deductions


Having said that, you simply make the claim - he has to justify his deductions, and from what you've said, he has not come close to that as yet. Though he might if /when court papers appear.

8) Finally, even if you win, does Joe have money to pay you? A job/income? An owned property? Often courts allow payment spread over monthsyears, and often defendants simply vanish or don't pay, meaning you have o return with bailiffs etc......

triple_eggs

Cheers for the quick response. I appreciate it as I don't have any experience with the law.

I moved in with Joe mid October 2018 and moved out at the end of February 2019.

Joe has had his current contract for 3 years, which is 36 months. I don't know what Joe's contract with Dave is.

Dave has already given Joe his deposit back; he deducted 33% last time the contract was renewed, and 33% this time. I understand Joe gave a deposit of £550, so he has walked away with £181.50. This time the deductions were for repairs to the house, and disposing of waste (I offered to take it all to the tip, but Joe said he would do it - really!).

Joe has not provided a clear breakdown of my charges, he has tried to explain it two ways:

1. Dave has charged Joe x, therefore I am liable for 50% of Dave's deductions
2. Joe has had to pay bills since I moved out, therefore I am liable for 50% of those bills

Joe and I work together for the same company, on the same site. I know he is paid £48k a year plus a bonus of around £4,000. I know he is capable of paying £355 back. This is in the far, barren north, so it's not as if his wage is subsumed by rent and a rail pass.

He claims to be incapacitated with a herniated disc, and has returned to his home country for private treatment. I have asked him for a forwarding address so I can prepare the paperwork, and said I would only submit an application when he returns so that he will certainly be there when any post arrives through his door.

He refuses to disclose his new address because he claims I have threatened him and he's concerned I'll smash his stuff up in his absence (really!). All I have done is tell him I will take him to court, and it will be much easier for us both if he takes me 1/7 offer.

Wanderingpomm

It sounds like you are a lodger not a tenant

triple_eggs

Wanderingpomm wrote: »

It sounds like you are a lodger not a tenant

You're right. Is there a significant difference?

macman

triple_eggs wrote: »

You're right. Is there a significant difference?

Yes, a world of difference. Firstly, your contract is not a legal tenancy., and Joe is not your LL. You are just a lodger, and lodgers have next to no rights: you can be given notice at any time, without reason, and be asked to leave with minimal notice. None of the legal protection enjoyed by tenants apply to you.
Re the utility bills, then if your name is also on those bills, you are jointly and severally liable for the whole bill, not just 50%. In the absence of Joe, the suppliers will pursue you alone for any arrears.

triple_eggs

So are you saying that because I'm a lodger, the contract I signed is completely worthless? Surely if it has both of our signatures, and Joe makes lots of references to it in our WhatsApp conversation, then it must be valid?

My name is not on any bills, they are all entirely in Joe's name. My contract says all bills are included in the rent. The bills are electric, gas, and water. TV license isn't mentioned and I have never agreed to pay a TV license, let alone use a TV.

csgohan4

OP you need to read G_M's guide on lodger and then come here asking further questions


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=67759939&postcount=9

triple_eggs

I have read it, I'm just confused by what some people in this topic are saying.

All I want to know is if I have sufficient evidence to go through small claims court.

GrumpyDil

Whether you have enough evidence is something for the court to decide.

That said how much would your claim actually be for as for a small amount it really it probably is not worth the aggravation ofpursuing a claim.

brianposter

I would suggest that you do have enough evidence, and that, if you are careful, there might only be a short period of bad relations.
It might be even better to have Dave as a witness.