No fault accident claim queries ...

Aylesbury_Duck

Gather as much evidence as you can of its value. Things like the warranty and engine re-build don’t count, because the first was an optional insurance and the second maintained the value of the vehicle. There’s nothing stopping you from buying the replacement from outside London, so that bit isn’t relevant.

AdrianC

Just_Focus wrote: »

Can anyone advise me on what to do when the third party insurer inevitably undervalues my car via the trade guides?

You escalate to the financial ombudsman, ultimately.
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/motor-valuation.html

My car is a 2011 Audi A4 Avant 2 litre TFSI manual with top spec (full leather, sun-roof, heated seats etc.). I looked for months for the exact vehicle as I wanted a petrol to avoid the T Charge that has now been implemented in central London.

Any and every Euro4 petrol car, which means post-2004 or so, is ULEZ exempt. The "T-Charge" was introduced in October 2017, and has been replaced by the ULEZ - currently, only covering the congestion charge zone. It's another two and a half years until it covers out to the circulars. The average duration of car ownership in the UK is estimated at various periods, with some sources suggesting as low as 20 months - so the chances are you'd have sold this car anyway before the ULEZ becomes anything more than a very localised (and easily avoided) issue.

As a result, petrol vehicles were (and probably still are) costing a lot more inside the M25.

So buy one from outside the M25 instead. The nice thing about cars is that they're portable...

The car had also just had a c.£5K engine rebuild

That doesn't add £5k to the value. It may well add nothing to the value.

I also paid an additional £500 for a 1 year no quibble warranty and only bought the vehicle 5 months ago.

I presume this engine rebuild was before you bought it, then? Because, otherwise, you'd expect the warranty to have covered the £5k bill, so the bill is irrelevant... Right?

But you would get the trade replacement value, so any car you bought would likely include a similar duration warranty - you had 7 months remaining. Anything longer would be betterment.

There is no way I can replace with anything like my vehicle for that money if you look on Autotrader.

Since you don't say how much they've offered you...

There's not many identical cars on the market currently - simply because Audi wouldn't have sold many new. There's only 8 2011 petrol A4 Avants on Autotrader, ranging between £7.8k and £14k. Most are in the £10.7k-12.5k range. So, without any more clues as to the condition/mileage/etc of yours, I'd suggest somewhere around £10-11k as a reasonable starting point. Remember, the insurance are under no obligation to provide an exact replacement, just the fair market value of the car immediately prior to the incident.

Quentin

AdrianC wrote: »

You escalate to the financial ombudsman, ultimately.

No

Whoever told you this has misled you

The OP cannot get any FOS involvement. The FOS won't intercede when the complainant has no policy with the insurer! Giving up FOS protection is a downside of not claiming off your own comprehensive policy.

The "ultimate" action would have to be court.

Just_Focus

AdrianC wrote: »

You escalate to the financial ombudsman, ultimately.


Any and every Euro4 petrol car, which means post-2004 or so, is ULEZ exempt. The "T-Charge" was introduced in October 2017, and has been replaced by the ULEZ - currently, only covering the congestion charge zone. It's another two and a half years until it covers out to the circulars. The average duration of car ownership in the UK is estimated at various periods, with some sources suggesting as low as 20 months - so the chances are you'd have sold this car anyway before the ULEZ becomes anything more than a very localised (and easily avoided) issue.

So buy one from outside the M25 instead. The nice thing about cars is that they're portable...

That doesn't add £5k to the value. It may well add nothing to the value.

I presume this engine rebuild was before you bought it, then? Because, otherwise, you'd expect the warranty to have covered the £5k bill, so the bill is irrelevant... Right?

But you would get the trade replacement value, so any car you bought would likely include a similar duration warranty - you had 7 months remaining. Anything longer would be betterment.

Since you don't say how much they've offered you...

There's not many identical cars on the market currently - simply because Audi wouldn't have sold many new. There's only 8 2011 petrol A4 Avants on Autotrader, ranging between £7.8k and £14k. Most are in the £10.7k-12.5k range. So, without any more clues as to the condition/mileage/etc of yours, I'd suggest somewhere around £10-11k as a reasonable starting point. Remember, the insurance are under no obligation to provide an exact replacement, just the fair market value of the car immediately prior to the incident.

In relation to your points:


1) My understanding is that you can only escalate these situations to Financial Ombudsman where you are claiming off your own insurer. I have been told that you cannot escalate when you are dealing with a third party's insurer. Perhaps you could confirm whether I've been misadvised on this point.


2) You've potentially misunderstood the point I was making about the charge (probably because I accidentally said T Charge when I meant ULEZ!). My point is that at the time I bought my car 5 months ago: (a) I was looking for a Euro 4 petrol estate Audi because I drive through central London regularly (outside congestion charge times but during the new 24 hour ULEZ that has just started) i.e. I was future proofing myself for ULEZ and therefore will want to replace my vehicle with a petrol and these are rare and (b) vehicles of that type were costing more than usual in London and surrounding area because a lot of people were doing the same as me i.e. looking for Euro 4 petrol cars. As you know, petrol Audi estates are rare as most are diesel.


3) Surely the value that I am given should be based on the cost of that type of vehicle in my local area. I live in Central London so why should I be expected to go miles outside the M25 to get a replacement? Also, where does this stop i.e. cars in Scotland are generally much cheaper, am I expected to go 400 miles to get a vehicle? Also, I only have one car, and a poster above said that once I get my settlement offer I will immediately lose my hire vehicle so how am I meant to go miles outside the M25 to look at replacements?


4) My point here is that these vehicles (2 litre TFSI Audis from that period) are known for an issue that eventually results in engine failure. All websites say that you shouldn't touch one unless it has had this recall work carried out. That's the reason I bought the one I did - the dealer had the Audi invoice from a couple of months previous showing this work had been carried out. Trying to find another one which has had this work done will be another further difficulty, and those vehicles are likely to be priced accordingly.


5) You're correct that the warranty was after the engine rebuild (this was done before I bought the car). Every trader I've ever bought a car off offers a 3 month warranty, not 6 or 7 months. Also, I thought the price guides they use are for auction values, in which case they include no warranty? I'm asking why I should lose 7 months worth of warranty I paid for as a result of an accident that wasn't my fault?


6) I haven't yet been offered anything but a friend looked up my car in some guides yesterday and estimates I will be offered £9K maximum, not the £10-11K that you have said is a 'fair starting point'. Obviously I hope they offer 11 or more but I don't think they will and am trying to prepare for that eventuality in advance.

Just_Focus

As an FYI for anyone following this thread, I just spoke to AX (the CMC) and they said that they would be going directly to the Micra driver's insurer as they were at fault. Not sure where all the views come from on this thread that they have to go to the vehicle that collided with mine rather than the at fault party but just wanted to confirm that this is not the case.

Aylesbury_Duck

Just_Focus wrote: »

As an FYI for anyone following this thread, I just spoke to AX (the CMC) and they said that they would be going directly to the Micra driver's insurer as they were at fault. Not sure where all the views come from on this thread that they have to go to the vehicle that collided with mine rather than the at fault party but just wanted to confirm that this is not the case.

I expect those views are based on the premise that you weren't directly involved in an accident with the Micra. It had its own accident with the learner vehicle which then hit yours. The Micra may be the root cause of the crash but your car has no direct "relationship" with it.

Just_Focus

Aylesbury_Duck wrote: »

I expect those views are based on the premise that you weren't directly involved in an accident with the Micra. It had its own accident with the learner vehicle which then hit yours. The Micra may be the root cause of the crash but your car has no direct "relationship" with it.

That may well be what those views are based on but I'm just feeding back that according to my CMC those views were wrong in this instance. Even though I was never directly involved in the accident with the Micra and therefore have no direct relationship with it my CMC will be claiming directly from the Micra's insurer. They said that if they were to go to the Learner's insurer they would refuse to deal on the basis that the Micra was at fault.