Sold my share of freehold flat. All docs say leasehold?

herc182

Hi

I accepted and offer on my flat. It is a share of freehold. There are 4 flats in the block. 3 of them (including mine) before my time, agreed to buy the freehold. We are all equal shareholders. The fourth flat leases from us.

Anyway, the "official copy of register of title" refers to the original freeholder (that the previous flat owners bought the freehold from) and that its a leasehold property. We have a LTD company that owns the freehold, and we are shareholders in that company. There is no mention of this.
This register of title also alludes to ground rent (which we do not pay - as freeholders, we decided NOT to charge ground rent for anyone - including the flat that leases from us). So in reality, this register of title is wrong. Or is it? Not sure if its just registered ONCE with land registry and not updated if it subsequently changes.

Caz3121

There is a difference to owning a freehold property and owning a leasehold property and a share of the freehold, which applies in your case.
Was it advertised as leasehold with share of freehold or was it advertised as freehold (the former may be worth less than the latter)?
https://www.frettens.co.uk/site/library/frettensnews/share-freehold-leasehold-fees-property-solicitor-bournemouth

davidmcn

The leasehold of your flat and the freehold of the building are registered separately. Which title are you looking at? Nothing changes on the flat's title just because the freehold has changed hands.

herc182

I am selling the flat. We are definitely freeholders. We lease from ourselves effectively. So strictly speaking, its a leasehold but from yourself! Reading that link you sent (thanks!) seems that leasehold is the important term. What I am still not clear on is why the land registry still lists the original freeholder that the previous flat owners bought it from!

herc182

davidmcn wrote: »

The leasehold of your flat and the freehold of the building are registered separately. Which title are you looking at? Nothing changes on the flat's title just because the freehold has changed hands.

This is probably key information then. The document I was looking at, from my solicitors, was the Register of title. When I bought the flat, it was identical (noting the original freeholders) but with the proprietor's name being different of course. So part A (property register) is the same (and notes the ORIGINAL freeholder, not the new freeholding company which the seller I bought from was a part of, and now so am I), Part B (Proprietorship Register) is different (as it was the original sellers details. Now its mine!) and Part c (charges register) is also different to reflect the mortgage provider it seems.

davidmcn

The lease is always going to be "Lease between Arthur Bloggs and Joe Smith dated 31 October 1891" (or whatever) no matter who the current owners of Arthur Bloggs or Joe Smith's interests as freeholder and leaseholder are.

Tiglet2

There should be two Register of Titles.

One is the Leasehold Title which would list you as the registered owner.

The other is the Freehold Title which would list either the LTD company or the three registered proprietors (you and two others). If it doesn't, then sounds as though it hasn't been updated.

So you are selling a leasehold flat and in addition a share of the freehold title.

herc182

Tiglet2 wrote: »

There should be two Register of Titles.

One is the Leasehold Title which would list you as the registered owner.

The other is the Freehold Title which would list either the LTD company or the three registered proprietors (you and two others). If it doesn't, then sounds as though it hasn't been updated.

So you are selling a leasehold flat and in addition a share of the freehold title.

Only seen one. Have a called with the solicitor tomorrow. Its item 1 on agenda! Thanks

eddddy

herc182 wrote: »

I accepted and offer on my flat. It is a share of freehold. There are 4 flats in the block.

You are selling 2 separate things (to the same buyer)

1) a leasehold flat
2) A share in a company that owns the freehold of a building (Your leasehold flat is situated in that building.)

herc182 wrote: »

This register of title also alludes to ground rent (which we do not pay - as freeholders, we decided NOT to charge ground rent for anyone - including the flat that leases from us). So in reality, this register of title is wrong. Or is it?

It sounds like ground rent is payable by the leaseholders, but the freeholders are choosing not to collect it.

The freeholders could change their minds about this at any time, and claim up to 6 years back-dated ground rent. (The buyer's solicitor may raise this point.)

herc182 wrote: »

Anyway, the "official copy of register of title" refers to the original freeholder (that the previous flat owners bought the freehold from) and that its a leasehold property.

So that would be the title of your leasehold flat - that all sounds correct.

herc182 wrote: »

We have a LTD company that owns the freehold, and we are shareholders in that company. There is no mention of this.

The leasehold title will not mention the name of the current freeholder - so that all sounds correct.

If you look at the freehold title - it should show the name of the current freeholder - i.e. the ltd company.

You can search for, and download the freehold title here (for £3):
https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/eservices/FindAProperty/view/QDSearch.do

eddddy

Also, have you made it clear to your solicitor that you want to sell 2 things? That is:

- A leasehold flat
- A share in the company that owns the freehold

If the solicitor thinks you are only selling a leasehold flat, they may have quoted you a lower fee, and may not be preparing documents for selling a share of the company.

AnotherJoe

herc182 wrote: »

I am selling the flat. We are definitely freeholders. We lease from ourselves effectively. So strictly speaking, its a leasehold but from yourself! Reading that link you sent (thanks!) seems that leasehold is the important term.

No, you are not.
You are a leaseholder, plus you own a share in the freehold.

herc182 wrote: »

What I am still not clear on is why the land registry still lists the original freeholder that the previous flat owners bought it from!

Because you solicitor hasn't done their job and updated the title ?