Used car help - Faulty car after 1 month, dealer not accepting fault

Smellyonion

motorguy wrote: »

A fault could have been present at the time of sale and not manifest itself for some time, correct, however given the car is 4 plus years old, it has not manifested itself in that time, nor did the seller pick it up in any checks they did on the car, nor did it occur on the test drive, nor did it occur during the handover, nor did it occur in the 5 weeks subsequent thus it could be assumed to be not present at the time of sale.

Also, its not up to the seller to prove your girlfriend caused it, merely that it wasnt there at the time of sale.



I would say the seller probably had the car for several weeks, probably drove it to MOT, moved it about, etc.

When i was motor trading - and if the dealer has any sense he'll be doing this - i had a checklist that i went through to check each car and either corrected any faults detected or signed off that the car was checked. If the dealer has something like that, it could be construed as evidence that he checked the car at the time and that fault was not present.

Heres a thought - lets turn it around - lets say your girlfriend sold the car and five weeks later the buyer came on the phone saying it had done this and she must have known about it and it must have been present at the time of sale, therefore she should take the car back or fix it. How would you respond to that?

The entire reason the 6 month rule exists is because that is the time period assumed for a fault to be likely inherent with the purchase hence the burden of proof on the dealership. What you suggest where it did not happen are not proofs at all but asumptions. Dealers don't drive cars, this particular one shifted it quickly. They are not main dealers, lack electrical knowledge.

I am not saying that the dealer knowingly sold a faulty car, i am saying the car was inherently faulty (did not manifest itself until being used). As of now, the fault has not reoccured. It is a total sporadic gremlin so how would the dealer have known if it is not a persistant fault.

Your example about selling privately is a private sale and is totally irrelevant. Its not a profit making business, the responsibility is not there.

Either way, the car is a july 2015, 1 owner, 24k fourfour, you would not expect it to happen. I have done the research and it went in twice under warranty for radio issues.

The fact they "do not cover electrical issues" at all - what does that say to you?

motorguy

Smellyonion wrote: »

The entire reason the 6 month rule exists is because that is the time period assumed for a fault to be likely inherent with the purchase hence the burden of proof on the dealership. What you suggest where it did not happen are not proofs at all but asumptions. Dealers don't drive cars, this particular one shifted it quickly. They are not main dealers, lack electrical knowledge.

They're not assumptions - they're statements of fact, and thats what you're going to be up against with the dealer and onwards at court if he doesnt play ball.

Smellyonion wrote: »

Your example about selling privately is a private sale and is totally irrelevant. Its not a profit making business, the responsibility is not there.

Its not totally irrelevant - wouldnt you be saying "well it didnt do it when we had it and it didnt do it in the five weeks after they bought it"?

Smellyonion wrote: »

Either way, the car is a july 2015, 1 owner, 24k fourfour, you would not expect it to happen. I have done the research and it went in twice under warranty for radio issues.

The fact they "do not cover electrical issues" at all - what does that say to you?

Its a 4 year old car. Things happen.

I am by the way playing devils advocate. I'm telling you what the dealer will say if he choses not to help and what he'll say in court so you need to find ways of nipping that in the bud.

Your finding out it had radio issues twice might well help you - i would be inclined to find out where it went in, ring them and ask if they have any extra detail that might help you. If you havent done so already.

Not sure if they are a built in to dash type radio but you might well save yourself a world of hassle by simply getting a replacement radio off ebay second hand and having it fitted.

You could, if the dealer refuses to resolve it, then request the dealer pays subsequently for that and then take it through the small claims court which is relatively straightforward and cheap.

Maybe the dealer will surprise us all and accept theres an issue and bottom it out for you, but be prepared for what to do if he doesnt.

Apodemus

Coming back to the original problem...

Sounds like the RAC guy assumed that this was a control module fault, which he may have identified by a road-side diagnostics check. It would not be unreasonable for him to try to reboot the module by disconnecting the battery and discharging the system, if he did not have the Mercedes-specific device to clear the fault electronically. It also sounds as if this worked, since the problem went away. If it hadn’t worked, then the next rational thing to do might have been to remove the fuse to prevent the component working.

This could be a software or hardware problem and the sort of issue that arises as complex modern electronics age - my vehicle showed three such faults the last time I checked, relating to Infotainment Control Module, Audio Amplifier Module and Audio Control Module, but none of these cause me any problems and I just routinely clear all faults.

The dealer should be able to identify the nature of the fault, but fixing it can be more tricky. They could reinstall or update the software and/or replace the module but the fault could still recur if the module is simply responding to mis-leading input from a fault elsewhere in the wiring.

With regard to proving whether the fault was there at purchase, it is just about possible that the dealer is able to provide a computer diagnostics report showing reported faults at sale, which may or may not include the module in question.

motorguy

Apodemus wrote: »

Coming back to the original problem...

Sounds like the RAC guy assumed that this was a control module fault, which he may have identified by a road-side diagnostics check. It would not be unreasonable for him to try to reboot the module by disconnecting the battery and discharging the system, if he did not have the Mercedes-specific device to clear the fault electronically. It also sounds as if this worked, since the problem went away. If it hadn’t worked, then the next rational thing to do might have been to remove the fuse to prevent the component working.

This could be a software or hardware problem and the sort of issue that arises as complex modern electronics age - my vehicle showed three such faults the last time I checked, relating to Infotainment Control Module, Audio Amplifier Module and Audio Control Module, but none of these cause me any problems and I just routinely clear all faults.

The dealer should be able to identify the nature of the fault, but fixing it can be more tricky. They could reinstall or update the software and/or replace the module but the fault could still recur if the module is simply responding to mis-leading input from a fault elsewhere in the wiring.

With regard to proving whether the fault was there at purchase, it is just about possible that the dealer is able to provide a computer diagnostics report showing reported faults at sale, which may or may not include the module in question.

If theres no joy with the seller an independent diagnostic check could well be the way forward. A main dealer could tell the history of the fault if it is throwing an internal error and if its logging the fault. It would then be relatively easy to prove it was present at / before the time of sale.

I think the dealer will attempt to wash his hands of it, as per what i described above, and if so the O/P needs a cast iron way forward.

Diagnostics checks and a quote from a main dealer to repair would be a basis for issuing a Letter Before Action and perhaps going through the small claims court to recover the costs.

The dealer may surprise us but it doesnt currently bode well.

almillar

As of now, the fault has not reoccured. It is a total sporadic gremlin so how would the dealer have known if it is not a persistant fault.

I know you're trying to hold the dealer responsible, but have you tried the pragmatic option yet, of simply replacing a battery that has gone flat, and could have caused the issue in the first place?