Mortgage PPI - How do I prove my parents were illiterate at the time?

Cooksie

I have issued a PPI claim on behalf of my parents as they were miss sold payment protection at the point they remortgaged. My parents are both of indian origin and both illiterate and therefore unable to read, write or speak english. They came from a village in india and moved here in the mid 1960’s and to date neither of them had any schooling in the UK.

They remortgaged our family home and at this point the loans adviser unbeknown to them sold PPI to them. I have submitted a complaint to the lender explaining my parents predicament at the time... being a fundamental lack of understanding of the english language and therefore reliant on the loans adviser to treat them fairly. They were not aware of the PPI instrument attached to the agreement nor did they know or understand its significance.

However, the lender's response states that they "have no reason to disbelieve my comments it is difficult to understand how there may have been a real language barrier between the consultant and your parents bearing in mind they had applied fro two mortgages with the society. Each application was completed in great detail concerning both their current and previous circumstances... The application form also included a policy summary highlighting the main benefits and exclusions of the policy. A mortgage offer was subsequently issued. It confirms in the offer that they had chosen to take out the Payment Protection and also the monthly premium".

My parents would be inclined to believe it was a prerequisite to qualify the loan due to their lack of understanding and unable to read and interpret what was said or provided to them in writing. They were ex-factory workers on a very low income and in need of the money at the time. There goal would be to appease the loans adviser to ensure they didn’t ‘rock the boat’ and risk the application being unsuccessful.

They would not be able to read nor understand the terms of the agreement and would simply have entrusted the loans adviser to guide them. They would understand the principle amount and the monthly repayment commitments. Any documentation would have been completed by the adviser and they would simply sign the form upon request and or as indicated.

Having raised this issue and explained this with the lender they are not prepared to accept the truth of this situation; that my parents were illiterate and I am trying to prove the fact that they are and thus they would’ve been effectively misinformed as they would not know what they were being asked to sign up to.

Would you be able to offer any advice as to how i can plausibly and lawfully convince the lender that my parents are and were in fact illiterate? I have notarised documents confirming their schooling status in India and their citizenship documents however the bank are saying this is not sufficient evidence. Further I am unable to prove the lack of any UK schooling, as if they haven’t had any UK schooling then there is no evidence to present. This seems like a catch 22 dilemma to say the least. I have searched many forums to see if anyone else has gone through a similar scenario such as this and there isn’t anything out there. I would really be interested in your thoughts and or advice please.

I eagerly await your response - Thank you.

Nearlyold

Questions:-

Other than the language issue on what basis do you believe the Mortgage PPI was "miss sold" to them? How would they have paid the mortgage if one of them was made redundant or could not work due to illness. Was the loan adviser a bank employee?

How did your parents contact the lender/loans adviser in the first place, how did the loans adviser converse with them to obtain the information necessary to apply for a mortgage and complete the forms.

Cooksie

Nearlyold wrote: »

Questions:-

Other than the language issue on what basis do you believe the Mortgage PPI was "miss sold" to them? How would they have paid the mortgage if one of them was made redundant or could not work due to illness. Was the loan adviser a bank employee?

How did your parents contact the lender/loans adviser in the first place, how did the loans adviser converse with them to obtain the information necessary to apply for a mortgage and complete the forms.

Hi, thank you for your response. My father was on sick leave from employment the remortgage was based on my mothers income, but in joint names. Yes the loan adviser was a bank employee. My father had a life insurance policy at the time to accommodate any unforeseen event. They had an existing mortgage with the lender and a deposit account; they took their mortgage book and my mothers payslips at the time. They visited the branch weekly to withdraw the weekly pay.

Nearlyold

When you say your father's life insurance covered unforeseen events was it a multi segment policy that also covered the same insured events as the PPI policy or was it just a policy that would pay out if your father had passed away.

Who was covered on the PPI policy - Mother only, Father only or both.

Did the Loan Adviser speak the same language as your parents?

safestored4

Your father may have had a life insurance policy on his life but since the mortgage was based upon your mothers income this has no relevance. How would the mortgage have been paid in the event of her redundancy, sickness or death? On the face of it the PPI they bought, which presumably related to her, seems a very sensible purchase.

Cooksie

Nearlyold wrote: »

When you say your father's life insurance covered unforeseen events was it a multi segment policy that also covered the same insured events as the PPI policy or was it just a policy that would pay out if your father had passed away.

Who was covered on the PPI policy - Mother only, Father only or both.

Did the Loan Adviser speak the same language as your parents?

Hello again! The life insurance would only qualify in the event he passed away.

The banks response specifically states that it only covered my mother. However, my mother was made redundant in 2001 and had my parents known this PPI existed then they would've submitted a claim - but they didn't as she had no idea about it.

The loan adviser didn't speak the same language he was english speaking.

Cooksie

safestored4 wrote: »

Your father may have had a life insurance policy on his life but since the mortgage was based upon your mothers income this has no relevance. How would the mortgage have been paid in the event of her redundancy, sickness or death? On the face of it the PPI they bought, which presumably related to her, seems a very sensible purchase.

Hello safestored4... but the issue is they didn't know about this purchase and therefore could not utilise it.

Bermonia

The reality is that it is exceptionally difficult to prove... as already stated they managed to more than adequately buy a property, get a mortgage and remortgage no simple task with basic or little understanding of English. As with such things it will come down to the balance of probabilities... if they could understand and do the rest then no reason think that the would not understand PPI

Cooksie

Bermonia wrote: »

The reality is that it is exceptionally difficult to prove... as already stated they managed to more than adequately buy a property, get a mortgage and remortgage no simple task with basic or little understanding of English. As with such things it will come down to the balance of probabilities... if they could understand and do the rest then no reason think that the would not understand PPI

Hi Bermonia - your response is very vague.. could you clarify what you mean by the balance of probabilities I don't understand what you mean.

Nearlyold

Okay, so it doesn't seem as if the PPI policy was miss-sold - it would seem to have been the correct advice.

What I can't get my head round is how on earth your parents managed to sit with an adviser who couldn't speak their language and they in turn couldn't speak his and managed to complete a mortgage application. I worked as a Mortgage Broker/Adviser in the dim and distant past - collecting all the information and getting the customer to supply all the necessary documentation would seem quite a task if neither party had the faintest idea what the other party was saying.

Cooksie

Nearlyold wrote: »

Okay, so it doesn't seem as if the PPI policy was miss-sold - it would seem to have been the correct advice.

What I can't get my head round is how on earth your parents managed to sit with an adviser who couldn't speak their language and they in turn couldn't speak his and managed to complete a mortgage application. I worked as a Mortgage Broker/Adviser in the dim and distant past - collecting all the information and getting the customer to supply all the necessary documentation would seem quite a task if neither party had the faintest idea what the other party was saying.

Can you clarify why you believe it hasn't been miss sold if they didn't know it exsited and thus were not aware of it.
Having reviewed the additional loan checklist all the required criteria has not been checked. I'm inclined to believe most of the information may have been used from the initial application or system data - that could be a possibility?