UKPC LBC Residential parking

xscape

Hi all,

I have trawled several threads here but cannot find reference to these specific circumstances.

LBC received a few days ago advising that the driver had been identified by a previous employer and thaat liability had been transferred under schedule 4 POFA 2012.

Mutiple tickets date from 2014 for parking in a designated area (visitor space) without a permit and overstaying allowed time as per signage. Total outstanding including arbitrary additional charges (£60 added if referred to debt recovery agent, total £150 per charge) circa £2k.

Reference to parkingeye Vs Beavis (standard I assume but under what precedent since that case applied to retail parking?)

Driver was a leasholder owner at a private gated development (controlled by electronic fob)
No mention of specific terms in lease concerning permit, though reference to commercial vehicles.

Driver was not acting as an agent for the company and was allowed private use outside of business hours.

Aside from requesting evidence (SAR) and writing to SCS LAW to advise, my question is what is the due procress that should be followed in the circumtance where recent idenficiation of driven has taken place and no other correspondance has been recieved prior to the LBC?

Managing agent has been contacted to try and get charges cancelled, and provide evididence that UKPC were allowed under the usual reesidential ground mentioned on the forum. I expect (as another resident who paid up told me) the response that legal proceedings are in progress and they will not cancel, when that is not the case with an LBC.

Seeking advice before submitting response, really appreciate any guidance.

NeilCr

Sorry. I am probably being dumb here!

Not sure I am quite clear on this.

Are you saying that you parked your work van (?) in a visitor's space at your home? And the invoices went to your previous employer who identified you as the driver?

What does the lease actually say about commercial vehicles (assuming that you parked a work van that is)?

xscape

Hi NeilCR, You aren't being dumb, to clarify.

Almost, the driver parked a regular car (fleet) and was allowed by employers to be used out of work hours on the occasions.

Per the lease

Visitor Parking space
The right (in common with all other entitled to the like right) to park one taxed and licensed private motor vehicle temporarilty one any one of the visitor parking spaces marked VP on the plans (if any) on afirst come first served basis subject to availability but not in excess of 24 hours in any period of 48 hours (if any).

xscape

Does anyone have any guidance as to whether primacy of contract could be in play here or whether it could be argued that the lease agreement was breached?

There is no mention of a permit requirement, the main argument for the PCNs

The_Deep

Beavis cannot be used in residential parking claims.

Are you saying that you are leaseholder and that you are allowed temporarily to park in a visitors space?

If so, does the lease give a definition of the word "temporarily"? From what you have told us the PPC might argue that you are abusing the the space.

If there is no permit scheme how can the PPC use that as an argument?

Your actions seem to affect the rights of other residents imo and contravene the T&C of the lease. I am not sure how it would give you primacy of contract, and, although IANAL, I think that you may struggle in court, especially if the MC support the PPC.




visiyors.? r

xscape

Hi The Deep,
I am the leaseholder.

I can only go by what is in the lease, which states:

The right (in common with all other entitled to the like right) to park one taxed and licensed private motor vehicle temporarily one any one of the visitor parking spaces marked VP on the plans (if any) on a first come first served basis subject to availability but not in excess of 24 hours in any period of 48 hours (if any).

My conclusion is that temporarily is defined at not in excess of 24 hours in any period of 48 hours (if any).

The lease does not mention use of a permit, which is what the PCNs appear to be for.

I would be happy to concede that, if there was evidence of overstaying (two out of the many tickets reference overstaying, I would be relying on evidence, this happened in 2014!) that it could constitute abuse.

Another question, because NTK went to the employer and I am only just hearing of this, is it the correct process that it can go straight to "letter before claim" without an appeal as the driver?

The_Deep

IF the PCNs are for non display of a permit and you lease makes no mention of the need for one then your lease has primacy. If you abused the visitor spaces, they may have a case.

I own a flat in a complex where visitors' spaces are constantly abused by a small number of residents. Because of this the managing agent is trying to appoint UKCPM to "manage" the car park. PPCs should have no place in residential car parks.

xscape

The majority are for permit, leaving a couple for overstay which I could concede in light of evidence.

There were from memory 6-7 visitor spaces so not exactly a premium, also held a council parking permit for the local street area so definitely didn't abuse visitor parking.

I'll respond to the LBC requesting the evidence in the first instance and go from there.

Would welcome any additional input.

The_Deep

… also held a council parking permit for the local street area so definitely didn't abuse visitor parking.

You may need to convince a judge of that, to me it appears to be a logical fallacy.

xscape

Agree, it wouldn't form the basis of an argument.

Looks like we're on somewhat shaky ground and I'm not confident of favourable outcome.

Appreciate the guidance.

NeilCr

Sorry I didn't reply earlier. Too much going on in my aged head!

Others are better versed than me but I am inclined to think the overstay ones may be difficult to defend as there is that term in the lease.

The permit ones may be different. Can you remember how/when the permit scheme was introduced and on what authority? And who was the freeholder? Was it "owned by the residents" for example?