Universal credit reconsideration decision

Houndog6105

Hello everyone
Sorry it's a bit long to read this one

Trying to get advice please on a decision by universal credit regarding the housing cost element (HCE) decision I received for the additional bedroom

I asked for a mandatory reconsideration and the original decision to not grant us the additional bedroom was again denied and I'm now thinking of appealing via the tribunal but I want to make sure I'm right first

Circumstances are we have a 3 bedroom house and there is myself my wife (disabled) unable to walk and currently living downstairs and we are unable to share a bedroom anymore. 2 kids both boys aged 1 and 9. One year old sleeps with me upstairs

DM says we don't qualify for part 2 which states because of their disability the renter is not reasonably able to share a bedroom with the joint renter
Now that's the part I see that they are wrong about
Surely she does qualify for part 2?? Or am I wrong?
Are they saying because she's not actually using the bedroom itself as an additional room then we don't qualify?

Here is the decision letter. I'll copy and paste it below

Your Mandatory Reconsideration Notice

You or someone who has the authority to act for you, asked us to look at the decision we made on 07/03/2019. We have taken into account all the information available and the decision remains the same/has been changed.
An explanation of our Mandatory Reconsideration decision is set out below.

Mandatory Reconsideration Universal Credit I am able to revise the decision dated 07/03/2019 which determined that you did not satisfy the disabled person condition and therefore an additional bedroom could not be awarded. Details of the Decision. The Decision Maker (DM) was asked to look at the Housing Costs Element (HCE) in respect of Mrs Universal Credit claim.

The decision maker was asked to consider the room allocation needs. On 15/5/18 Myself and my husband made a joint claim to UC. They stated on their initial disclosure that they live in a 3 bedroom rented property with 2 dependants living with them (Max DOB 5/7/12 (MY SONS IS 5/7/17. THEY PUT WRONG DOB)
and Leo DOB 25/5/09) On 15/2/19 Myself and my husband stated that were unable to share a bedroom, reason because:

I'm living bathing and sleeping downstairs and currently unable to walk and go upstairs. I use a commode downstairs for toilet needs I'm living downstairs in my living room and using a large sofa as I'm unable to walk and get upstairs. I wash,bath and sleep downstairs and can only stand for a very short period of time using a Zimmer frame

Universal Credit is operated by the Department for Work and Pensions UCD477 Page 2 of 4 Regulations provide that a renter is entitled to a bedroom for
1. the renter or joint renters
2. a qualifying young person for whom the renter or either joint renter is responsible
3. a non-dependant who is not a child
4. two children who are under 10 years old
5. two children of the same sex 6. any other child. Universal Credit Regs 2013, Sch 4, para 10 Universal Credit, New Style JSA, New Style ESA: Decisions-Claims, revisions, supersessions, etc, determinations of questions and Mandatory Reconsiderations LT54(UC)

Disabled Person Condition
A renter will also be entitled to an additional bedroom if they satisfy the new disabled person condition (this captures those couples who are unable to share because of disability).
Universal Credit Regs 2013, Sch 4, para 12 The disabled person condition mentioned above is satisfied where the renter would normally be expected to share a bedroom with a joint renter but:
1. The renter is in receipt of
1.1. the care component of Disability Living Allowance (DLA) at the middle or highest rate
1.2. Attendance Allowance (AA) (at the higher rate)
1.3. the daily living component of Personal Independence Payment and
2. because of their disability the renter is not reasonably able to share a bedroom with the joint renter.
Myself is in receipt of the enhanced level of care of Personal Independence Payment.
Myself has stated that im living and sleeping downstairs in the living room as she is unable to get upstairs. There is no evidence to suggest that there is a bedroom situated downstairs, therefore the question of allowing an additional bedroom allocation serves no useful purpose as she is unable to get upstairs

Effect on Award.
Entitlement to the Additional Bedroom Disallowed On 22/02/19,

You requested a reconsideration of the decision not to award an additional bedroom. I have taken into account all the available evidence with regard to your Mandatory Reconsideration. In order to be able to award an additional bedroom due to your disability you must satisfy the disable person condition.
Universal Credit, New Style JSA, New Style ESA: Decisions-Claims, revisions, supersessions, etc, determinations of questions and Mandatory Reconsiderations LT54(UC) Disabled Person Condition

A renter will be entitled to an additional bedroom if they satisfy the new disabled person condition (this captures those couples who are unable to share because of disability. Universal Credit Regs 2013, Sch 4, para 12

The disabled person condition is satisfied where the renter would normally be expected to share a bedroom with a joint renter but:
1. The renter is in receipt of
1.1. the care component of Disability Living Allowance (DLA) at the middle or highest rate
Universal Credit is operated by the Department for Work and Pensions UCD477 Page 3 of 4 1.2. Attendance Allowance (AA) (at the higher rate)
1.3. the daily living component of Personal Independence Payment and

2. because of their disability the renter is not reasonably able to share a bedroom with the joint renter.

Departmental records confirm that Myself is in receipt of the enhanced level of care of Personal Independence Payment.
This satisfies Part 1.3 of the disabled person condition. However, to be eligible for the additional bedroom entitlement
Part 2 of the condition must also be satisfied.
Myself has stated that I'm living and sleeping downstairs in the living room as she is unable to get upstairs.
This reason does not satisfy part 2 of the condition. No new evidence or information has been received and as such the original decision is UPHELD

Effect on award No Change
Yours sincerely,
Office Manager Universal Credit

calcotti

I think this is probably correct based on my interpretation of the rules.

Your wife is unable to use the bedroom because she cannot get upstairs.

The regulation is for people who cannot share a bedroom but need to sleep on their own. That is not the same as not being able to access the available bedroom.

sportsarb

I think this one of those absurd conditions where, if the currently living room was transformed in to a bedroom, and the third bedroom was transformed in to a living room the conditions would be met. Unless there is a clause prohibiting that.

Their interpretation of the guidance is that because the third bedroom is not being used by you, they cannot pay for it, I can't remember what my training said for this situation....in fact I think I may have been absent for it.

Houndog6105

I think this aswell. No point in appealing then for tribunal I think

Very confusing how they make some of these decisions

huckster

Agree that having seen a number of such example cases, that the Decision Maker has made a decision consistent with other almost identical situations.

I would be surprised if there were not already tribunal decisions about this and it might be worth contacting a disability rights organisation, to see if they have more information.

Houndog6105

Yes that's a very good idea actually. Thankyou huckster

w06

It is in keeping with the letter of the law.

I think the reasoning is that if you changed your living room into a bedroom and your bedroom into the living room then you could share (the old living room, new bedroom) with your wife

Houndog6105

Is there any other way of working around this one then to get them to agree to the additional bedroom element?
I've just registered with scope for anybody out there who also needs advice and help with disability rights ect. It's a great website and lots of help on there

Scope.org.uk

Alice_Holt

Have you tried a Discretionary Housing Payment application?

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/benefits/discretionary_housing_payments_dhp

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/claiming-discretionary-housing-payments/claiming-discretionary-housing-payments

Apply though your council.

Houndog6105

No I haven't. Thankyou. I shall take a look now

pmlindyloo

I am wondering whether the living room versus bedroom is a bit of a red herring.

To be awarded the additional bedroom you have to show evidence that you cannot share a bedroom with your wife.

As it stands your children can share a bedroom. The decision has been made that you can share a bedroom with your wife. Hence the two bedroom award.

So, why can you not share a bedroom with your wife? This is the information that they are looking for. It is not enough to say that she can only sleep downstairs because of her disabilities. Bedrooms can be downstairs. You need to give evidence of how sleeping in the same room (forget bedroom v living room for a moment) is detrimental to you.

I do not know how your wife's disabilities affect her during the night.

Perhaps there are posters on here who have been awarded the additional bedroom local housing allowance and could input some advice as to the kind of situations which has seen their being granted an additional bedroom. Possibly Citizens Advice may have some suggestions.

Being granted an additional bedroom is not about personal choices. There has to be some evidence that to share a bedroom would have a detrimental effect on your life.

Hopefully someone else may have some suggestions about how you could present this at a tribunal.

Applying for a Discretionary Housing Payment seems a sensible route but I fear they may also question this. It might depend on when you started your tenancy and why you were awarded a 3 bed house. However, whether you decide to go to tribunal or not I would still put in an application for a DHP.

If all else fails have you looked to see what help is available for your wife in the form of aids to make your lives easier?

I may be mistaken about my 'take' on this situation, especially as regards the bedroom v living room question but thought I would post to give a wider perspective of the decision process.