Do I need an architect for planning variation?

LisaBrown366

Hi, we are half way through an extension and have decided to no longer have a garage and instead have what was going to be a garage as a playroom. Our local planning department say that this requires a variation to the existing planning permission. Our architect is trying to charge us £1,000 to change the plans, which seems extortionate. All that we need to do is change the position of an internal door, remove the garage door and replace with a window and add a rooflight. Does anyone know if it’s possible to make these changes ourself somehow? And what the process would be to apply for the variation? Our architect handled our original permission and submitted it etc. We feel like he’s got us over a barrel - there’s got to be a cheaper way!

All advice welcome.

Thanks

Lisa

Doozergirl

A scanner/photocopier, tipp-ex, decent black pen, a steady hand and scan/photocopy it again.

If it's minor, I wouldn't have any issues with playing with the existing drawings and submitting online. £1,000 sounds ridiculous.

EachPenny

Doozergirl wrote: »

A scanner/photocopier, tipp-ex, decent black pen, a steady hand and scan/photocopy it again.

If it's minor, I wouldn't have any issues with playing with the existing drawings and submitting online. £1,000 sounds ridiculous.

I agree, although the OP needs to check their contract with the architect to make sure there are no clauses regarding amendment of the documents/copyright etc which could get them into trouble.

The only other issue is that changing the space from being a garage to a habitable room will alter other aspects of the application (not just the drawings). E.g. will the development meet the Council's requirements for parking if the garage is no longer included? The question is whether the OP feels confident submitting the correct information to get the variation approved.

Obviously the change will also alter the requirements for Building Regulations, and having correctly detailed drawings for this will be essential.

Newuser1987

Wow not sure how your architect can in anyway justify that.
Assuming you are only asking for the planning drawings to be changed. This sort of change I think would take me about - 10mins to change the drawings and probably 10 mins to submit the application. I charge £80p/hr so would probably charge £40. (not offering my services though).

Even if you got Sir Norman Foster to do this for you I dont think he would charge you this much.

I wouldnt worry about copyright etc as long as you original architects fees have been paid. Just contact another local architect and explain the situation. I am sure most would be willing to help if you told them how much they are proposing to charge.

stator

I doubt the original plans for the garage are suitable for a habbitable room.
Building regulations will require a certain level of insulation on the walls and roof that I doubt were included in the original plans for the garage.


The architect is probably quoting you to make the change compliant with building regulations. Varying the planning permission is not enough.

Newuser1987

stator wrote: »

I doubt the original plans for the garage are suitable for a habbitable room.
Building regulations will require a certain level of insulation on the walls and roof that I doubt were included in the original plans for the garage.


The architect is probably quoting you to make the change compliant with building regulations. Varying the planning permission is not enough.

The OP hasnt said thats whats been asked of the architect. Converting a garage can be done under a building notice so doesnt require an architect to do Building Reg drawings as well.

Given the works have already started they could just ask the Building Control Officer to include that work under the current notice.

Even if it did require building regulation drawings it still wouldnt justify a fee of that scale for specifying some insulation etc. All straight forward stuff and tbh all compliance notes can be taken from websites like this https://www.buildingregs4plans.co.uk/garage_conversion_plans.php

EachPenny

Newuser1987 wrote: »

I wouldnt worry about copyright etc as long as you original architects fees have been paid. Just contact another local architect and explain the situation. I am sure most would be willing to help if you told them how much they are proposing to charge.

Not worrying about things like copyright can turn out to be a very expensive mistake.

The OP needs to check their contract.

Other reputable architects will not break the law and their ethical duty by using someone else's work without authority or permission. And who would want to employ a disreputable architect?

And as both I and stator have said, the fee is likely to need to cover more than just minor amendments to the drawing - there are many other considerations to take into account in changing the use of a space from garage to habitable room.

Newuser1987

EachPenny wrote: »

Not worrying about things like copyright can turn out to be a very expensive mistake.

The OP needs to check their contract.

Other reputable architects will not break the law and their ethical duty by using someone else's work without authority or permission. And who would want to employ a disreputable architect?

And as both I and stator have said, the fee is likely to need to cover more than just minor amendments to the drawing - there are many other considerations to take into account in changing the use of a space from garage to habitable room.

Once the client has paid they have the license to use the drawings. How in any way would converting the garage be a copyright infringement? The new architect would have their own drawings on their own headed paper. Any new architect would contact the existing architect to confirm that the client has the licence to use the drawings. Not an issue for the OP to worry about?

As I have said even if it was more than just minor amendments it does not justify the fee!
No reputable architect would propose to charge that sort of money for something so small.

LisaBrown366

Thanks everyone for your replies, that’s really helpful and i’m very grateful.

So hypothetically speaking, if we were able to make the changes to the drawings ourself (and appreciate the potential copyright issues etc), how would we actually apply for the variation and what do we need to apply for?

Our planning permission is over a year old. I’ve read about material and non material amendments and have read the guidance. The new window (in place of the garage door) arguably doesn’t overlook anyone as we are well set back from the road and the house opposite is 70 metres away and is behind tall trees and bushes etc. Our house is also set forward from neighbours, so no issues there. The new skylight would obviously point upwards and whilst you might be able to see the neighbouring property’s wall, they have no windows on that side of their house.

Am I being overly hopeful at thinking it might be able to fall into a non material amendment? It looks like the fee is lots cheaper than for a material amendment (£30ish v over £200!).

Also, just a practical question - our architect dealt with the application last time and make it online for us. Are we able to submit this application ourselves via the planning portal?

Thanks so much for all your advice! It really is appreciated.

LisaBrown366

Thanks for this! Have posted some further questions below - I would really appreciate any thoughts you have given your expertise!!

EachPenny

Newuser1987 wrote: »

Once the client has paid they have the license to use the drawings.

If such a licence is specifically granted as part of the contract the client has with the architect. Hence the need for the OP to check their contract.

Newuser1987 wrote: »

How in any way would converting the garage be a copyright infringement?

It wouldn't. But the first architect's work (the designs and drawings) will constitute intellectual property which might, or might not, be restricted in reuse and copying.

A new contract with a new architect to design the conversion of an existing garage into a habitable room would be entirely separate. But the OP is talking about changing the design of a project part-way through construction, there is not a clear-cut separation of the work.

E.g. The 'new' architect's design for the roof window might impact on the first architect's roof design. If the roof is not yet completed then it has the potential to cause problems with risk and liability which is something to be avoided, especially if building regulations sign-off has not yet occurred. If there is a question about the structural calculations for the roof before BR sign-off, which architect is going to deal with it?

Newuser1987 wrote: »

The new architect would have their own drawings on their own headed paper.

Which would mean the new architect starting from scratch and producing all the drawings necessary. That is a very different proposition to using a photocopier and tipp-ex on existing drawings which the OP might be able to get away with (subject to checking the contract).

Newuser1987 wrote: »

Any new architect would contact the existing architect to confirm that the client has the licence to use the drawings. Not an issue for the OP to worry about?

Personally I'd check something like that before commissioning a new professional to carry out a job for me. If the response from the existing architect to the new one is "no" then what do you do next? By that point the relationship with the existing architect will have broken down.

Much better to read a contract and know what the situation is before breaking any eggs.

Newuser1987 wrote: »

As I have said even if it was more than just minor amendments it does not justify the fee!
No reputable architect would propose to charge that sort of money for something so small.

That all depends on how much work the architect feels will be required within the scope of the additional brief.

For a few minor annotations on a drawing it is expensive.

But what if the insertion of the roof window requires a new set of structural calculations for the roof?

Out of all of us, only the architect and the OP really know what will be required as a result of these changes.