Nat West say "Device ID" proves I'm a fraudster?

waveyjane

Good point about the browser history.

I am going to send subject access requests to Sainsbury's and a hotel in Coventry which also seems to have been booked on the card (I live in London - not been to Coventry in years).

jonnygee2

There's nothing in the card messages that would show a 'device ID'. The merchant may have this information, but it seems unlikely that the bank has any access to it at this point.

I suspect what they are looking at is when you looked at your transactions and balance on the website and app? How come you did not notice a series of high value transactions over 2 weeks? Did you log on to online banking or use the app to check you balance?

It's not what they have claimed to be looking at, but what they've claimed doesn't fully make sense to me.

Terry_Towelling

jonnygee2 wrote: »

There's nothing in the card messages that would show a 'device ID'. The merchant may have this information, but it seems unlikely that the bank has any access to it at this point.

I suspect what they are looking at is when you looked at your transactions and balance on the website and app? How come you did not notice a series of high value transactions over 2 weeks? Did you log on to online banking or use the app to check you balance?

It's not what they have claimed to be looking at, but what they've claimed doesn't fully make sense to me.

OP has said she isn't the sort to keep checking her bank balance (that may have changed now) but, as stated, Verified-by-Visa and MasterCard SecureCode are both capable of detecting a different access device (be that a router or whatever else) and prompting for more security info to allow the transaction to take place

I am assuming that these secure systems did not detect a difference and therefore did not ask for extra security info and that the data captured by these secure systems at the authorisation stage is available to Issuers to scrutinise - just a guess.

Ben8282

waveyjane wrote: »

a hotel in Coventry which also seems to have been booked on the card

This was not mentioned previously.
When did this happen?
Have you actually cancelled this debit card to prevent further things being debited to it?

waveyjane

Ben8282 wrote: »

This was not mentioned previously.
When did this happen?
Have you actually cancelled this debit card to prevent further things being debited to it?

Yes, the card was cancelled on the day I noticed the purchases on my statement. I am also sending a subject access request to the hotel asking for further details about the purchase (including whether there was any ID shown to them). It happened at the same time as the Sainsbury's activity.

BTW I've subsequently checked my browsers' (Chrome and Edge) histories, and there are no entries for Sainsbury's, either on those dates or any other.

waveyjane

colsten wrote: »

@waveyjane, have you reported the fraudulent use of your card to the Police / to ActionFraud yet? If not, you should do that straight away

Yes, I've reported it to them.

DCFC79

Please keep the thread updated as will be interesting to see the response from Natwest.


Are you going to send a SAR to Sainsburys or see if you can view the cctv ?

brewerdave

Not strictly relevant but a few years ago now, I had a series of mystery purchases on my card - included annual membership of a sports club, and a course of driving lessons! I reported to NatWest as not my purchases and they were credited back - never got any explanation,but to this day ,I can't believe it was fraud - who in their right mind would pay for driving lessons with a dodgy card??

phillw

p00hsticks wrote: »

Sainsbury's don't just sell groceries - I'd think the obvious targets from there for fraudsters would be smartphones, gaming consoles, video games, home electronics and booze

Maybe xbox top up cards. I know someone whose kid denied using their card to buy xbox credit, they got microsoft to refund, still denied it, a couple of days later said they were going to the police and they would have to investigate the fraud and the kid fessed up.

The kid had even been talking about saving up to buy the games that he'd already bought using the card details he'd stolen from his dads wallet. It was all very calculated, the parents didn't expect that level of dishonesty.

Even people you're related to can do dumb things, someone in your family could be a victim of blackmail, trying to impress someone etc. Or it might be a bank error.

brewerdave wrote: »

I can't believe it was fraud - who in their right mind would pay for driving lessons with a dodgy card??

Someone who needed driving lessons and thought the real account owner wouldn't notice, if it all goes wrong then the instructor wouldn't suspect them because "who in their right mind would pay for driving lessons with a dodgy card??"

waveyjane

Just an update on this in case anyone is curious.

NatWest gave me a routine satisfaction survey yesterday in which I said I was unhappy with the way they dismissed my claim without giving me any evidence that my computer had been used to make the purchases.

Customer complaints then called and said that they would put a note on my record to say that I intend to appeal following written confirmation of NatWest's position (which is pending).

Interestingly, they said that the card has been presented for payment online several times since it was cancelled. So NatWest are implying that I've not talked to my husband or son about any of this. Or my computer is controlled by somebody else, despite no malware scan coming up positive (I've run Bitdefender, Kaspersky and AVG boot CD scans).

Meanwhile, I have sent off SARs to Sainsbury's and a hotel in Coventry, and it seems from this analysis that "device ID" counts as personal information under GDPR too. So I can try a SAR for that ID from NatWest, which I guess I could compare to a third party assessment as part of the appeal.