CPP, council sub-letting?

toddis

The driver took my 91yr old wheelchair bound mother shopping yesterday (Sainsbury's) and got himself a parking ticket. They parked in a disabled bay and displayed my mums Blue Badge but they didn't purchase a ticket. The driver and my sister normally take her shopping but this time the driver was alone and with all that he had to do, he forgot to buy a ticket.

The driver took the pcn to Sainsbury's and the manager told him the car park was council run. The manager couldn't confirm if the council sub-let the control of parking to a private company but he was adamant the parking has nothing to do with Sainsbury's as they don't own the land. Considering how cash strapped councils are, I can't imagine any council handing over a cash cow (or do they?). I notice at the top of the sign, it states the land is privately owned.

I also noted that CPP is a trading name for PE and that CPP are not listed as members of BPA. Is that significant?

I'd be interested to hear your opinions and what to do next. I was planning to call the council in the morning to confirm their status on the parking situ.

https://imgur.com/5LdPntn

https://imgur.com/GYdbZna

https://imgur.com/3TvVHzw

Fruitcake

Definitely contact the council to see if they really do own the land. My local council purchased a retail park including a sainsbury's store last year as an investment but it still appears to be infested by a private parking scumpany, so it is possible the Sainsbug's manager was telling the truth.

If however the council say they don't own it, then complain to the sainsbug's ceo telling them the store manager lied to you after the parking scumpany they employ harassed a genuine customer.

Meanwhile, the keeper should appeal around day 26 using the template in blue from the NEWBIES.

The keeper should also complain to their MP about this unregulated scam.

Car Parking Partnership is a trading name of parking lie who are BPA ATA members, so there is no mileage in challenging that.

Fruitcake

I am interested in the bit about displaying a ticket/permit from Greenwich Car Parking Services, which is based in London, not Chorley where parking lie and the car parking partnership are based. The company numbers are different as well.

toddis

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying CPP have issued a PCN when the ticket is issued by Greenwich Car Parking Services?

What's the problem regarding locations and company numbers?

Coupon-mad

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2419546

Passey Place, as a roadway, is subject to a Traffic Order as above, but I can't see that a Sainsburys car park would be and I think the Sainsburys Manager is misinformed, or lying to fob you off.

The REGISTERED KEEPER must diarise to appeal on day 26 like the NEWBIES thread tells you and you might well be able to win it easily by not talking about what happened and just catching CPP out, by making the forget to issue a NTK in time (a tried and tested tactic shown in the NEWBIES thread).

Fruitcake

CPP have issued a PCN for not displaying a ticket/permit from what appears to be completely different company, Greenwich Car Parking Services. I just wonder how that is supposed to work.

With whom does the landowner or supermarket have a parking contract? Is it CPP or GCPS?

Are there two contracts; one between the landowner/landholder and one PPC, and another between the two PPCs; or does the landowner/landholder have one contract with each parking company?

Who is allowed to obtain keeper data from the DVLA?

Who is allowed to issue PCNs?

Who, if at all, is allowed to start court proceedings?

Where are GCPS's signs and/or Ts and Cs that are supposed to form a contract between that company and the motorist? Where exactly do GCPS say you must buy one of their tickets/permits?

What name is on the pay and display machine? Are there any Ts and Cs on these pay machines, especially concerning a motorist getting a PCN if they breach them? With whom the motorist be in breach of contract?

toddis

Thank you so much for your observations and information.

Whom do I raise this little lot with or is that ammo for if it goes to POPLA or court?

How to find out who's able to obtain keeper data from the DVLA?

I'll get the driver to appeal as suggested and thanks once again for your time.

Coupon-mad

That's all ammo for POPLA.

Just do what the NEWBIES thread says, but NOT till day 26 (understand why).

rachity

Although redacted, I'm guessing that the NtD fails PoFA 2012 Sch 4 7(2)(a)


7(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to driver for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(2)The notice must—

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

Coupon-mad

Never tip off a PPC about the POFA, when replying to a windscreen PCN.

rachity

I would wait till closer to the 28 day deadline to do so.


Having said that, imho they can't unring the bell by issuing a compliant NtK when the NtD is non-compliant.


6(1)The second condition is that the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor)—

(a)has given a notice to driver in accordance with paragraph 7, followed by a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 8; or

I read that as the NtD must be compliant, &, if not, the NtK doesn't count.