Question Regarding Tenants in Common Shares

chat01

Hi,

Lost my Dad recently and he left a Will and appointed me and another as Executors.

We have established that he owned his house as Tenants in Common with his wife (not my mum), she pre-deceased him some years ago.

How do you establish/confirm the 'share' of the Ownership? i.e. how do we establish whether it was 50/50 or 25/75?

I have a copy of the Land Registry Title Information but it doesn't say there. I don't have the deeds yet as they appear to be in Abbey National 'Deed Safe'. There is also a charge in favour of Santander shown as registered (he was in his eighties - he didn't have a 'mortgage' outstanding' - would they retain a charge if they are looking after the deeds?

Many thanks for your help.

Keep_pedalling

There will be nothing on the deeds showing the split. Normally if the split is not 50/50 then the owners would draw up a deed of trust showing the share owned by each party. If one of those does not exist then your father’s share is 50%.

The charge will be related to the deeds being held.

chat01

Thank you so much. So would a Deed of Trust just be kept ‘in the house’ or in a safe deposit etc? i.e. if we haven’t come across one in his paperwork then It’s likely that one doesn’t exist?

konark

If his wife pre-deceased him then who is the owner of the other half of the house? Did his wife leave a will? If not he would have inherited the other half under intestacy rules.

chat01

Hi, yes she did leave a will (which I haven’t seen) but the solicitor is holding. Unfortunately the executors of the will are both dead (my dad was one of them). In addition, the three beneficiaries of the will, her children, have all passed too. There are two grandchildren and a spouse of one of her children that have survived her and I believe these will be the beneficiaries of her Will (the only asset being I believe to be the half of the house).

I think one or more of the beneficiaries of her Will can apply to be an Executor, and then apply for Probate and then deal with the sale of the house. Please do correct me if I am wrong. Many thanks in advance.

Yorkshireman99

chat01 wrote: »

Hi, yes she did leave a will (which I haven’t seen) but the solicitor is holding. Unfortunately the executors of the will are both dead (my dad was one of them). In addition, the three beneficiaries of the will, her children, have all passed too. There are two grandchildren and a spouse of one of her children that have survived her and I believe these will be the beneficiaries of her Will (the only asset being I believe to be the half of the house).

I think one or more of the beneficiaries of her Will can apply to be an Executor, and then apply for Probate and then deal with the sale of the house. Please do correct me if I am wrong. Many thanks in advance.

The process is that one or more can appply for Letters of Administration with the will annexed with the will annexed (attached) and the will is probated in the normal way.

Flugelhorn

chat01 wrote: »

Hi, yes she did leave a will (which I haven’t seen) but the solicitor is holding. Unfortunately the executors of the will are both dead (my dad was one of them). In addition, the three beneficiaries of the will, her children, have all passed too. There are two grandchildren and a spouse of one of her children that have survived her and I believe these will be the beneficiaries of her Will (the only asset being I believe to be the half of the house).

I think one or more of the beneficiaries of her Will can apply to be an Executor, and then apply for Probate and then deal with the sale of the house. Please do correct me if I am wrong. Many thanks in advance.

Unless it is specifically clarified in her will it may be that the grandchildren are the only beneficiaries of her half of the house, not the "in-law"

SevenOfNine

The 'charge' remains the same as ours with Nationwide did. £1 was left outstanding on the mortgage & they kept the deeds in their deed store. It may only have been £1 but nevertheless, still classed as an outstanding mortgage balance.

Santander were a trifle awkward last year when my FiL died, I think the mortgage balance owed for donkey's years was £10, don't recall whether they actually insisted on it being paid, but the 'charge' had to be removed before we could sell the property. Though not a great issue, it was just another paper exercise that took Santander about 10 days or so, & could have been avoided.

In my view, there is no necessity to store property deeds with a mortgage lender if the property is registered with Land Registry. The deeds are no longer the important documents they once were. Just another time wasting irritation to sort out on the death.

Keep_pedalling

chat01 wrote: »

Hi, yes she did leave a will (which I haven’t seen) but the solicitor is holding. Unfortunately the executors of the will are both dead (my dad was one of them). In addition, the three beneficiaries of the will, her children, have all passed too. There are two grandchildren and a spouse of one of her children that have survived her and I believe these will be the beneficiaries of her Will (the only asset being I believe to be the half of the house).

I think one or more of the beneficiaries of her Will can apply to be an Executor, and then apply for Probate and then deal with the sale of the house. Please do correct me if I am wrong. Many thanks in advance.

It sounds like her will gave your father a life interest in her share of the property, with her children receiving their share on the death of your father. You say all of her children have also died, but if any of them were still alive at the time of her death ten their share will need to be distributed according to their will, or intestacy rules if they did not have one.

You have quite a web to untangle here and I would seriously consider getting some legal advice to avoid making any very expensive errors.

chat01

Hi, thank you and yes I know it is more complex than we anticipated. To add to this, the surviving spouse is ‘estranged’ from the family and the two grand children will probably not have the means or ability to deal with applying for Probate themselves. Can I apply for Probate “on their behalf”? I am not a beneficiary of the Will not a blood relative but clearly I have an interest in dealing with her estate (just the house as she died over 10 years ago) as without Probate on her side we cannot sell the house and get my Dads estate sorted. Thoughts anyone?

badger09

chat01 wrote: »

Hi, yes she did leave a will (which I haven’t seen) but the solicitor is holding. Unfortunately the executors of the will are both dead (my dad was one of them). In addition, the three beneficiaries of the will, her children, have all passed too. There are two grandchildren and a spouse of one of her children that have survived her and I believe these will be the beneficiaries of her Will (the only asset being I believe to be the half of the house).

I think one or more of the beneficiaries of her Will can apply to be an Executor, and then apply for Probate and then deal with the sale of the house. Please do correct me if I am wrong. Many thanks in advance.

First of all, condolences on your loss. Its 38 years today since I lost my dad, and I still miss him:o

If you haven't seen the late wife's will, how do you know who the executors and beneficiaries were?

You really need to see the exact wording to establish how her share of the property was to be dealt with.