VCS Court Claim - Johnsons Cleaners

goingcrazy2019

Hi hive mind -
I have read all the newbie stickies and have logged into Moneyclaim and submitted the AOS. I'm guessing I now need to build my defence. I haven't been able to find any similar cases so wondering if you can help me?


My car was parked on a Johnsons Cleaners Car Park between 9.20pm and 9.27pm 24.11.2018. The photographs on the VCS website are taken between 9.22pm and 9.25pm. There were no illuminated signs and the business was not open at the time. No signs were visible therefore it was believed the car could be parked there legitimately. When I returned there was a PCN on my windscreen.


We then looked for signage and found unlit signs at the back of the car park stating a permit was needed. I believe that due to the unlit signage I was not able to lawfully enter into a contract to park on this land.


I also believe, with subsequent knowledge from employees of the cleaners, that no permits actually exist. Therefore, it would not be possible to display a permit even if the shop had been open.


I had written to the parking company, just outside of the appeals timeline, and stated why I felt the parking notice was unlawful but did not get a response to this letter.


I then received a number of automated letters threatening court unless I paid the fee of £160.


Today I have received a Claim Form from (County Court Business Centre, Northampton) stating I am being taken to court for £185.


What do I do next?


Thanks in advance......

KeithP

Hi and welcome.

What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

You now need to be reading post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to discover how to compile a winning Defence.

Umkomaas

Have you obtained your own photographs, if not, you need to get photos of the signage in the car park, taken in the light conditions that prevailed at the time of the parking event. If in the hours of darkness, take photos without flash to show any poor illumination.

You also need good quality close ups so the terms are clear to read, as they form the purported contract between the driver and the parking company.

Coupon-mad

When I returned there was a PCN on my windscreen.

Are you sure it wasn't a red card/envelope emblazoned 'this is NOT a Parking charge'?

Not sure why you can't find similar defences to crib from. All you need is to search:

defence IPC unlit signs

defence IPC shops closed no contract

defence IPC grace period

defence VCS permit

Assuming it was a 'not a PCN' card, what's wrong with the VCS example in the NEWBIES thread that deals with exactly that scenario and is right there in the sticky thread?

goingcrazy2019

Issue date 25th March

goingcrazy2019

Umkomaas wrote: »

Have you obtained your own photographs, if not, you need to get photos of the signage in the car park, taken in the light conditions that prevailed at the time of the parking event. If in the hours of darkness, take photos without flash to show any poor illumination.

You also need good quality close ups so the terms are clear to read, as they form the purported contract between the driver and the parking company.

Yes I have all of these.

goingcrazy2019

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Are you sure it wasn't a red card/envelope emblazoned 'this is NOT a Parking charge'?

Not sure why you can't find similar defences to crib from. All you need is to search:

defence IPC unlit signs

defence IPC shops closed no contract

defence IPC grace period

defence VCS permit

Assuming it was a 'not a PCN' card, what's wrong with the VCS example in the NEWBIES thread that deals with exactly that scenario and is right there in the sticky thread?

Trying to locate the original, but think it was yellow and definitely a printed card with hand written info. Can’t remember if it had ‘this is not a PCN charge’

Ok thanks, didn’t think of searching those terms and searching on my phone brings up weird responses. Will look on a laptop.

KeithP

goingcrazy2019 wrote: »

Issue date 25th March

With a Claim Issue Date of 25th March, you have until Monday 15th April to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox link from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

Having done the AoS, you have until 4pm on Monday 29th April 2019 to file your Defence.

That's over a month away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence but best not leave it to the very last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:

Print your Defence.
1. Sign it and date it.
   
2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
   
4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
   
6. Do not be surprised to receive a copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to put you under pressure.
   
7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.

goingcrazy2019

“With a Claim Issue Date of 25th March, you have until Monday 15th April to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox link from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread“

Sorry should have said in original post that I’ve done all the steps suggested in the newbie thread. Just at point of collating defence. I have searched using search terms suggested and picked up a few defence points from others.

In terms of the ‘permit’ issue, there are no actual permits issued (employees confirmed this) so it’s not possible to get a permit. Is this something to mention in the defence or is it irrelevant?

Also - the shop was shut at the time, is there anything in previous cases I can quote or if there isn’t is this something that can be used as a defence? Or does it not matter, the fact it was private land is all that matters?

The place could easily be chained off (across entrance) but it is not and it is right next to public spaces so not really clear that you can’t oark there. We genuinely didn’t know it was private land. It is like they are inviting people to park there to entrap. Is this anything that can be mentioned?

Finally, although my letter (a version of the one on MSE website) would have reached them after the appeal cut off, it wasn’t written as an appeal and was sent recorded delivery. We never had a response. Can this be included in defence?

Thank you so much for all your help.

D_P_Dance

Clearly they are trying to scam you and I am sure a judge will see through it. IMO, they would be mad to put this in front of a judge, but complain to your MP anyway, it costs them money yo deal with letters from MPs.

On 18th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these private parking companies. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Ralph-y

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