Droputs with multiple wifi access points -- RADIUS server?

esuhl

I have friends with a big stone house and outbuildings in the middle of nowhere.

With four wireless access points (APs), a scanner shows at least one decent signal anywhere in the house. But still they complain that the wifi intermittently "drops out" on their phones.

All APs use 2.4GHz wifi with the same SSID, password and encryption, but on different (non-overlapping) channels.

1. Are dropouts inevitable when moving between APs?

2. Would putting all APs on the same channel help?

3. Would using a RADIUS server make switching between APs "seamless"?


Cheers in advance for any tips

Neil_Jones

The concept of access points is that they combine to create one big wireless network, its similar principle I suppose to mobile phone masts if you happen to be moving around while connected to one (obvious example here is driving while on the phone but please don't do that) that the phone jumps on the next nearest mast as you move.

1) Not always, because sometimes its down to the device not noticing it has connected to a new point.

2) No. If you are literally the only wireless network for miles around put your points on channels 1, 6 or 11.

3) Overkill I think, you find them more in corporations or areas where you need to log on (like a library for example) and if you was to drop off you'd have to log back on again.

AndyPix

A radius server will server no purpose here - that is just for authenticating clients ..


The issue you are having here is that even though your ssid's have the same name, that is only the name that YOU see . The devices use the bssid which you dont see and will be different for each "network" you have created..
What AP's are you using ? You should be able to put them in repeater mode rather than access mode so they just broadcast the same network and when the signal gets weaker on one it just passes you to the other.
You should only have one of them set in access mode

arciere

You've already been given good answers, I can only add a few more points.

If each access point is independent from each other (i.e. there is no 'controller'), then each end device decides whether and when to switch. In that case the only thing you can do is to have all the devices with the same SSID, password and encryption and (if at all possible) disable the low speeds (like 4 Mbps), this will force the end device to look for a better access point.

Another clarification on AndyPix's point: the BSSID is actually the MAC address of the access point, each access point has a its unique BSSID, that's how the devices know which access point they are connected to, even if they use the same SSID.

In some cases it is possible to use special setup (like the 'Zero handoff' for UniFi equipment): all the access points will work as if there is only one, big access point in the area, this is a real roaming solution, however, unless you live in the desert, you will get many more problems with interference from neighboring networks.

wongataa

esuhl wrote: »

3. Would using a RADIUS server make switching between APs "seamless"?


Cheers in advance for any tips

I think you mean using a mesh setup not a RADIUS server for point 3

esuhl

Cheers all. I won't bother with RADIUS, then.

AndyPix wrote: »

What AP's are you using ? You should be able to put them in repeater mode rather than access mode so they just broadcast the same network and when the signal gets weaker on one it just passes you to the other.
You should only have one of them set in access mode

They're TP-Link access points -- one connected via Powerline adaptors, the others via Ethernet.

I think the only "repeater" function they have requires the APs to connect to each other wirelessly. I tried this, but the connection dropped out a lot more often, especially when the signal passed through multiple repeaters. And the APs outside the house don't quite reach the main wifi coverage area, so repeaters outside don't work. :-/

arciere wrote: »

If each access point is independent from each other (i.e. there is no 'controller'), then each end device decides whether and when to switch.

They're independent. Is it worth getting a controller? What sort would I need?

arciere wrote: »

In some cases it is possible to use special setup (like the 'Zero handoff' for UniFi equipment): all the access points will work as if there is only one, big access point in the area, this is a real roaming solution, however, unless you live in the desert, you will get many more problems with interference from neighboring networks.

Thanks. There are no other networks nearby, so I'll look into that.

wongataa wrote: »

I think you mean using a mesh setup not a RADIUS server for point 3

No -- I was wondering whether to enable the RADIUS server on the router.

There is actually a SkyQ mesh network in the centre of the house as well, but I didn't want to complicate things, as it's completely separate (different frequency, SSID, and only used for connecting TVs).

debitcardmayhem

esuhl wrote: »

snipped....

There is actually a SkyQ mesh network in the centre of the house as well, but I didn't want to complicate things, as it's completely separate (different frequency, SSID, and only used for connecting TVs).

Hmmm are there two BB connections then, which is irrelevant I guess , but do the phones/tablets connect/have ever connected to that too?

arciere

esuhl wrote: »

Cheers all. I won't bother with RADIUS, then.



They're TP-Link access points -- one connected via Powerline adaptors, the others via Ethernet.

I think the only "repeater" function they have requires the APs to connect to each other wirelessly. I tried this, but the connection dropped out a lot more often, especially when the signal passed through multiple repeaters. And the APs outside the house don't quite reach the main wifi coverage area, so repeaters outside don't work. :-/



They're independent. Is it worth getting a controller? What sort would I need?



Thanks. There are no other networks nearby, so I'll look into that.



No -- I was wondering whether to enable the RADIUS server on the router.

There is actually a SkyQ mesh network in the centre of the house as well, but I didn't want to complicate things, as it's completely separate (different frequency, SSID, and only used for connecting TVs).

Repeater mode should be the last resort, the quality of the signal reduces every time it is repeated.
In regards to the controller, there is no controller you can install, rather there are WiFi solutions that are "centralised".
It really depends on your budget, but systems like Meraki or Ubiquiti should solve your problems.
Personally, I use Ubiquiti at home (the controller is actually a program that runs on a computer, it's not even required to run 24/7). You can tweak pretty much anything, including the 'Zero handoff' I mentioned earlier.
That being said, before you change equipment, the best thing you can do now is to get the access points connected to the wired network, either with a direct connection to the main router or through switches.
The risk is that you end up spending £££, but the real problem remains unresolved.
Mesh is an alternative, but then again we are in the field of 'repeaters': if the WiFi signal doesn't travel very well throughout the house, a mesh solution could require A LOT of access points.

EDIT: re-reading your original post, it seems that they only have problems when they 'roam'. In that case I think a centralised solution is the best thing you could do.

esuhl

debitcardmayhem wrote: »

Hmmm are there two BB connections then, which is irrelevant I guess , but do the phones/tablets connect/have ever connected to that too?

Sorry I wasn't very clear. There's one BB connection and everything's on the same LAN subnet. But only SkyQ boxes use a 5GHz channel, while the other APs only use 2.4GHz.

And yes -- the phones/devices only have the SSID/password for the 2.4GHz channels stored. They have never connected using the 5GHz SSID.

So, essentially (I presume) the 5GHz SkyQ boxes can be ignored.

that

look what the motorguy says here
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5911209/wifi-plug-broadband-problem&highlight=mesh+wifi

esuhl

arciere wrote: »

Repeater mode should be the last resort, the quality of the signal reduces every time it is repeated.
...
That being said, before you change equipment, the best thing you can do now is to get the access points connected to the wired network, either with a direct connection to the main router or through switches.
...
Mesh is an alternative, but then again we are in the field of 'repeaters': if the WiFi signal doesn't travel very well throughout the house, a mesh solution could require A LOT of access points.

Right. They tried repeaters in the past, but they were slow and unreliable.

Now they're just using wireless APs, connected to the router via Ethernet, except one AP that uses a pair of Powerline adaptors. There are no repeaters anywhere.

arciere wrote: »

EDIT: re-reading your original post, it seems that they only have problems when they 'roam'. In that case I think a centralised solution is the best thing you could do.

Yeah. The "lady of the house" complains about her iPhone disconnecting intermittently when she moves between rooms.

I just saw the RADIUS option on the router and thought it might help (or be fun to play with ).

The issue may just be poor internet speed/latency. The complaints are (as always) somewhat vague, involving complete amnesia of anything technically relevant... :-/

arciere wrote: »

In regards to the controller, there is no controller you can install, rather there are WiFi solutions that are "centralised".
It really depends on your budget, but systems like Meraki or Ubiquiti should solve your problems.
Personally, I use Ubiquiti at home (the controller is actually a program that runs on a computer, it's not even required to run 24/7). You can tweak pretty much anything, including the 'Zero handoff' I mentioned earlier.

I had a (very quick) google, but it looks like Meraki/Ubiquiti solutions just provide a mesh network and allow packet analysis(?).

The network doesn't get much traffic, so I don't think any kind of control (QoS, packet analysis, etc.) is necessary.

And a mesh sounds great, but at the extremities, only one wireless AP is in range, so it would need a lot more APs in intermediate positions to work.

Or... could I plug the remote mesh nodes into Ethernet to provide a contiguous mesh network...? Do mesh nodes have to connect to each other wirelessly...?