ESA3 IBR Savings - Backdated payments

ScaredOfChange

Hi MSE forum,

I would appreciate some help with a section of the ESA3 IBR form regarding savings.

Part 13 of the form wants to know about bank accounts, savings and similar and at the end asks; "How much were the savings in total?" Add together all the amounts from Page 23 and 24 to work this out.

Based on this if the amount is or has been over £5,500 they want 7 years of bank statements.

Where I am confused is most of the money I entered doesn't count as savings. In the last 12 months I have had two big back payments from tribunals where ESA and PIP were stopped after being made to re-apply, turned down then overturned either at tribunal or while waiting to go to tribunal. I was told that these do not count as savings but I filled out my current balance in the bank account section. Should I change the balance to zero, which it would have been without the back pack payments which are not considered as savings? One of them was over 5k so has no 12 month before its considered I believe.

Another section asks if I have had "Other money from benefits owed to you". Do I put the backdated payment here as it was owed to me? If so it appears in my bank credit amount and in that box. Still both of them should not count as savings but the end wants them totalled up as savings.

I also had an insurance claim for when someone hit my car which got paid out in the last 12 months and was used to replace the car. My understanding is that this should not be considered savings either?

My current balance is way under the £5,500 threshold and the only time it has gone over is when the backdated payments both came in at the same time, about 6 months ago.

If I add up the insurance payment and current balance to fill in the "current savings" total, it will not actually be current savings but will be over the threshold where I need to get 7 years of bank statements.

Knowing this, I don't want to incorrectly put it as savings but I don't see how else to fill it out. It's very confusing.

Can someone please give me some direction on this please.

Many thanks!

I can't post links but the image of that section of the form is here
i.imgur.com/NPi1M2o.png

calcotti

I don’t think there is necessarily a ‘correct’ way to do this. I would be inclined to add up the totals to whatever they are but add a note saying “please see additional information at question xx” where xx is the number of the question at the end of the form where you can provide additional information. At that point add details of the benefit arrears and the insurance payment and explain that without these payments your savings would never have exceeded £5,500? If you can it would be sensible to include copies of the notifications about the benefit arrears payments (although obviously DWP should be able to check these themselves) and the insurance payment.

Similarly put the amount in the other money from benefits box but again put a note alongside referring to the additional information.

This form is, in my opinion, a badly designed form even for normal use to capture a moment in time - for capturing information over a number of years it’s even worse.

ScaredOfChange

Thank you for the advice.

It does seem silly to ask about back payments and your bank balance when they can be related so it doubles the figures. It makes no sense at all to me.

Having won 3 tribunals now, one without turning up as I was in hospital, I am used to the DWP screwing me over every chance they get so I expect the same will happen here anyway.

I had years of trouble and stress with council tax payments because they wouldn't put me on income related ESA and now the court case that prompted this form I think shows I should have been on it and not paid the council tax for those years. Worst than the stress of having less money and struggling to pay bills during that time, the dealings with the council over late council tax payments literally broke me as a person. No amount of back pay can ever make up for the damage done to me by the council and benefits system during that time and even now im still having to fight for everything, every step of the way.

Sorry for the rant but, in the words of Vinnie..."It's been emotional".

G23

I think calcotti is bang on. These forms are so bad, but really the important thing is to convey the facts about your money giving a clear narrative and proof where possible.

They’re read by humans (they may be so-and-so’s but they’re still human...) and so long as you give them the facts you’re doing all that is required from you by the regulations. Even if you put the right answers in the wrong boxes (though I wouldn’t recommend it).

I’ve known people to be awarded upwards of £18,000 from these reviews so do persevere!

G23

Don’t let the b******s grind you down! They want you to give up but this money belongs to you.

benidorm59

ARREARS of 5k or over are disregarded indefinitely for ESA IR claims so if you have had these you don't need to include these. Or your car insurance payment pay out it went straight in and out. If the bank statements cost you money to get them then you are not expected and they will not ask you to get them. The word they use is light touch

ScaredOfChange

benidorm59 wrote: »

ARREARS of 5k or over are disregarded indefinitely for ESA IR claims so if you have had these you don't need to include these. Or your car insurance payment pay out it went straight in and out. If the bank statements cost you money to get them then you are not expected and they will not ask you to get them. The word they use is light touch

That is how I understood it. But the form asks for backpayment info and wants it totalled up as savings. So do you leave it out, which feels like lying because I had a backdated payment but would give a correct amount of actual savings from it, or put it in and get a wrong amount of savings. Do you enter a 5k+ backpayment on the forum where it asks if you have back payments or not? This is part of what I was asking originally.

On top of that, say my current balance is £3500, so i need to put that under where it asks for my bank balance. Even though it's at that amount from the backpayment, if I put I have £0 in that account, im sure they will clobber me for lying even if it's not savings.

Then when it totals all that section up, they want you to put in the total box the 5k back payment + the current back account (which is the same money counted twice and exempt from savings) as my savings and being over the limit would want bank statements. Makes no sense to do it that way at all, by any standards.

So I understand what you are saying, and was aware, but when it comes to this form, common sense and knowledge goes out the window :mad:

I will follow Calcotti's advice though. Can't see any other way of dealing with it without the DWP giving me even more grief.

One last question, does anyone know the difference between Phase 1 and Phase 2 when it comes to the DWP fixing this mistake or the forms?

The only info found on their website says

How many are affected and how much money is payable
The department is in the process of reviewing around 570,000 ESA cases that could be affected. It expects to complete the checking of the majority of around 320,000 cases by April 2019 (Phase 1). Phase 1 also includes around 20,000 cases where the claimant has sadly died. These cases are taking longer as the department needs to identify next of kin and the department expects to complete work on these cases by the end of December 2019. A further 250,000 cases (Phase 2), will also be reviewed following the Secretary of State’s announcement in July 2018 to pay all cases back to the point of conversion, with an expectation that this work will be completed by the end of 2019.

Is it just a random split of cases or is there a difference between the people in Phase 1 and 2? The phase is written on the front of the form they sent and it's unclear why is important.

poppy12345

Savings of more than £5,000 are only disregarded for life when it's a DWP error. Your backdated money from Tribunal wins are not disregarded for life, they are disregarded for 12 months.

ScaredOfChange

Does the DWP turning you down for a benefit and a tribunal saying their decision was a mistake, count as a DWP error? As that is what the back-payment that took a year to happen was over.

Even so, I only got the backdated pay 6 months ago so its within the 12 months they have to ignore it as savings anyway. Would just be nice to know if it can be ignored indefinitely though.

poppy12345

ScaredOfChange wrote: »

Does the DWP turning you down for a benefit and a tribunal saying their decision was a mistake, count as a DWP error? As that is what the back-payment that took a year to happen was over.

Even so, I only got the backdated pay 6 months ago so its within the 12 months they have to ignore it as savings anyway. Would just be nice to know if it can be ignored indefinitely though.

No, it's not classed as a DWP offical error. As advised, it's ignore for 12 months only.



The Incapacity benefit to ESA is one that's classed as an offical error. If you are one of the ones that's been underpaid and it's more than £5,000 then it's ignored for the life time of the ESA claim.

MeenaM

poppy12345 wrote: »

No, it's not classed as a DWP offical error. As advised, it's ignore for 12 months only.



The Incapacity benefit to ESA is one that's classed as an offical error. If you are one of the ones that's been underpaid and it's more than £5,000 then it's ignored for the life time of the ESA claim.

hi
does this 12 month rule apply where you obtain backdated PIP after a reconsideration and the person is on income related ESA? can you please provide a link to the authority for this please as I cannot find anything , also do you still need to declare it even though it is disregarded for 12 months ?many thanks