Paypal refunds buyer after ebay found in my favour

mkboy

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

Paypal are a bank so you need to make a formal complaint:

No good for the OP I know but this is why when selling something worth more than you are will to lose Click & Collect might not be a good option to offer.

Don't worry, I'm never doing THAT again...
Of course the stinger here is that Ebay shut his account down. Normally I would be able to go and get the buyers proper details from Ebay as Im entitled to (as one party to the sale), if a click-and-collect went wrong. Just not in this case.




You know, I never even realised that Paypal is an actual bank! Thats a very interesting nugget of information...

GabbaGabbaHey

If the buyer is, as suggested, a serial scammer, then it would be very easy for them to to create a false letter from "an Apple Store". Copy the Apple logo from their web site and 5 minutes with a word processor.

Do Apple Stores actually even issue letters stating that phones are faulty?

mkboy

GabbaGabbaHey wrote: »

If the buyer is, as suggested, a serial scammer, then it would be very easy for them to to create a false letter from "an Apple Store". Copy the Apple logo from their web site and 5 minutes with a word processor.

Do Apple Stores actually even issue letters stating that phones are faulty?

Well of course I'm absolutely certain that Paypal will be checking this out with full due diligence. :rotfl:


Because they care and looking after the people who pay the bills is their top priority.

theonlywayisup

mkboy wrote: »

- The Apple letter is only conclusive if it is about the same phone. That needs to be verified before we can attribute certainty to it. But it may indeed be right. Thats not the issue here. I accept the item may be faulty. I've never had any communication from the buyer to myself indicating what he wants me to do about it. If I had, I would have responded and tried to sort out some kind of return or repair etc. But there has been no, and I repeat this again in case its not clear, no response from the buyerto my request for information (made originally through the original ebay case).

I agree, I took it that the letter showed the phone is faulty.

You did say (my bold)...

It turns out that the buyer sent them a letter from an Apple Store which says the phone is faulty.

mkboy wrote: »

- During the subsequent Paypal case, there has been no communication between me and the buyer. Why?

I have no idea, did you miss it? Were you relying on what you had said in the eBay case, you do say you had already said it there....you realise it isn't relevant to the Paypal case don't you?

mkboy wrote: »

If I had, I would have responded and tried to sort out some kind of return or repair etc. But there has been no, and I repeat this again in case its not clear, no response from the buyer to my request for information (made originally through the original ebay case).

and

mkboy wrote: »

(a) because Ebay told me at the end of their case that I was to have no communication with him, and they had removed his account. Fair enough. Remember the ebay terms and conditions also forbid contact outside of Ebay anyway.

You have completely misunderstood that warning. You are perfectly at liberty to contact a buyer when they have purchased, just not before.


You have his Paypal email address, he will get copies of messages you send to his Paypal email.

mkboy wrote: »

(b) because I don't have his contact details. Remember that it was a click-and-collect delivery so the address I have is for and Argos store in East London. Normally I would have access to his user address via ebay, but since ebay have cancelled his account I cant get that either.

(c) Paypal have never asked me to communicate with the buyer. They have handled the entire case themselves. I wasn't aware it was possible to communicate with another paypal use via paypal anyway, but bear in mind I have to also abide by Ebay's T&Cs.

Ebay T&C do not say you cannot communicate with a purchaser.

It doesn't matter what anyone thinks or what alarms are ringing.

If you don't have the name and address of the buyer then you can't pursue any other legal route.

theonlywayisup

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

It would be conclusive that a phone is faulty.

OP have Paypal provided you with a copy of the letter?

.

No, I haven't seen the letter. Like you I only read what the OP wrote. The fact he/she wrote as per my quote above. Where did you read it wasn't the same phone?

mkboy

theonlywayisup wrote: »

I have no idea, did you miss it? Were you relying on what you had said in the eBay case, you do say you had already said it there....you realise it isn't relevant to the Paypal case don't you?

Lol, now you have misunderstood my post... the "Why" was a rhetorical question, the three answers for which I then listed under (a), (b) and (c)


I have therefore explained why there was no communication during the Paypal case. Paypal never asked me to communicate with the buyer. The chap on the phone in Dublin just said the case was being investigated now, thankyou for my call, and to wait for Paypal to contact me.



So I did. There is no confusion over this. There is no deep mystery as why there has benn no paypal case communication between me and the buyer. It because he's never contacted me to say what he wants. He never answered the request for contact when the ebay case was open, and Paypal told me to wait until they had finished their investigations in to the case.


Simple as that.



In retrospect I might also point out that at that stage, given the ebay case experience which had only just finished, and the evidence we had from the previous seller ("we" meaning ebay and myself) and the further fact that Ebay terminated his account, I was very much of a mind to believe this man was a fraud and a criminal.



In which case I don't communicate with criminals. ("We don't negotiate with terrorists blah blah") So, in the absence of any communication from the buyer (opening a case with Paypal is NOT the same as communication from the buyer) PLUS the fact that Paypal had told me to just wait, I was not inclined at that stage to poke the hornets nest.



Hence no Paypal communication while the case was open.



I hope that makes it clear. The question was put there for me to immediately present the answers.

mkboy

theonlywayisup wrote: »

No, I haven't seen the letter. Like you I only read what the OP wrote. The fact he/she wrote as per my quote above. Where did you read it wasn't the same phone?

Lol again you misread the post. I am OP, and I was being asked by the_lunatic_in_my_head whether I had seen the letter.



He said "OP have Paypal provided you with a copy of the letter?" and I gave the answer. He wasn't asking you. :cool:


As to the indefinite article in the sentence about the Apple letter and the phone, yes I could have been clearer by stating that by "the phone" I meant "The phone that the Apple store had examined and written about in the letter."



Which is what I really meant. We still don't know if "the phone" is actually "that phone" that I sold the buyer.



And No, again I state that I don't have the name and address of the buyer because I can't now get it from Ebay, (because his account is no more) and Paypal won't tell me (I wouldn't ask them... GDPR and all that)


You are right that I DO have his Paypal email, and I do therefore have that as an option.



However, since from where I am sitting, whereas before, after the ebay case, I had the money and he had the phone (so what need was there to communicate anyway...) now after the Paypal case He has the money AND he has the phone. That looks like theft to me.



In other words, the scam that people originally warned me about during the ebay case has in some ways come to fruition with the assistance of Paypal.

mkboy

theonlywayisup wrote: »

Ebay T&C do not say you cannot communicate with a purchaser.

I stand corrected, thankyou. But it is immaterial in this case since I DONT have his name and address, BECAUSE ebay have closed his account AND the original delivery was to an Argos collection point.

theonlywayisup

mkboy wrote: »

I stand corrected, thankyou. But it is immaterial in this case since I DONT have his name and address, BECAUSE ebay have closed his account AND the original delivery was to an Argos collection point.

I can't seem to help you understand so I won't try any further.

That said, have you double checked your email communications from ebay and PayPal regarding the sale to see if you have any further info on the buyer. A little bit of research may yield what you need. I understand you are miffed, but your lack of understanding of Paypal cases hasn't helped.

Good luck, I will leave you to it.

mkboy

Thankyou, theonlywayisup, you are right that I may well have misunderstood the Paypal case process, as I freely admit this is my first one, and I have been "dragged" or "guided" or whatever through it by the phone call to Paypal in Dublin at the start of it.


So can anyone else enlighten me as to the extent of my misunderstanding, because I'm struggling here to work it out.