Extend the uncertainty?

lisyloo

You only get priority if you are about to die.

This is simply not true.
There are targets for example for a referral for a cancer diagnosis.


I totally agree with your point that there is a disconnect between what people want/expectations and what they are prepared to pay.
There are some downside to the welfare state in terms of expectations certainly.

lisyloo

If you build more care homes then more people will let granny go into one of the new care homes instead of trying to look after them themselves

Absolutely not. Simply not true (in the context of Free care).
If you are paying then of course you can do whatever you want.
If it's free you need to be referred by social services.
This will only happen when options of home care (4x1 hour per day) and family care has been exhausted.
So as an example people a risk of falling or risk of making unsafe decisions like setting fire to the kitchen.
You don't get put in a home for free if you can be cared for with 4 visits a day at home.

If you built care wards with sufficient beds to look after all the elderly people in the area who are unable to care for themselves and have no means it would be a different matter. But that's politically untenable.

I don't understand which bit is politically untenable?

Sailtheworld

lisyloo wrote: »

This is simply not true. There are targets for example for a referral for a cancer diagnosis.

There are targets for all sorts of things in the NHS. Cancer targets tend to be higher priority that's all. The World keeps turning if & when they're missed.

My dad recently fell and broke his hip and needed an emergency hip replacement. The NHS weren't waiting around just in case he popped in - they can't deal with demand so someone had their operation cancelled because they were a lower clinical priority.

The same goes for high profile areas like cancer. At full capacity if patient a was due to be seen but patient b presents with a higher clinical need then they'll take priority. Patient a will have to wait until their clinical need increases. i.e. over time the waiting list gets longer with everyone on it having a worsened prognosis.

As cancer is high profile I imagine there's an attempt to increase capacity by diverting funds from other lower profile areas such as hip replacements and hernia repairs etc.

To be a priority you need to be very ill or be able to game the system.

Malthusian

lisyloo wrote: »

Absolutely not. Simply not true (in the context of Free care).

It is true and an inherent part of the economics of offering a service which is free, high quality and universal.

If you build more local authority care homes which pretend, Potemkin-style, to offer the same standard as private accommodation (individual rooms, etc), more families who are currently muddling along will realise, completely of their own volition, that they just can't cope with granny after all, and ring the local authority. Until equilibrium crisis is restored.

I don't understand which bit is politically untenable?

The part about housing elderly people with no money in the kind of facilities our thought leaders now consider a relic of the 1960s.

lisyloo

more families who are currently muddling along will realise, completely of their own volition, that they just can't cope with granny after all, and ring the local authority

It doesnt work like that.
Its not like ordering a pizza on demand.


If the family just refused to care (many caring people won't) then cheaper carers at home would be put in place.
If you are a capable and able-bodied spouse then the LA just won't accept you can't give medication, cups of tea etc. so you can't just refuse if you live there.

AG47

Say what you like but here is less uncertainty with Boris.

It’s looking clearer and clearer everyday that the band aid will be pulled off in one short sharp painful pull come oct 31st.

Property markets will crash, lots of businesses will go bust but the free market will start again fresh with correct prices and values for property

lisyloo

AG47 wrote: »

S
Property markets will crash, lots of businesses will go bust but the free market will start again fresh with correct prices and values for property

The property market is now global.
Foreign investors will buy property and prop up prices.
Sorry but if you want a home you’ll need to graft for it like everyone else.

RealElement47

lisyloo wrote: »

The property market is now global.
Foreign investors will buy property and prop up prices.
Sorry but if you want a home you’ll need to graft for it like everyone else.

Yes but they will wait for the crash

Even the governor of the Bank of England dais 30% crash if no deal

triathlon

RealElement47 wrote: »

Yes but they will wait for the crash

Even the governor of the Bank of England dais 30% crash if no deal

Or they will just wait for the collapse of the £, which actually seems to be the case and not some mythical 30% property crash two decades in the making

triathlon

AG47 wrote: »

Say what you like but here is less uncertainty with Boris.

It’s looking clearer and clearer everyday that the band aid will be pulled off in one short sharp painful pull come oct 31st.

Property markets will crash, lots of businesses will go bust but the free market will start again fresh with correct prices and values for property

Businesses will go bust, hard earned life savings lost from working those 14 hour daily shifts, families put onto the streets
Do you know what, I can sense a big smile across your face at the thought of that