Do I need a LOLER certificate for our lift?

J_B

We have a lift in our holiday rental business on the Welsh coast.


The lift suppliers are suggesting that we need a LOLER certificate, but my take on it is that it is only for 'workplace' lifts, which it isn't.


Has anyone any experience of this???

phill99

But as it is in a holiday let, it would be classed as a commercial lift, and therefore covered by LOLER.


Have a look here.


http://www.hse.gov.uk/work-equipment-machinery/lift-equipment.htm

J_B

phill99 wrote: »

But as it is in a holiday let, it would be classed as a commercial lift, and therefore covered by LOLER.

Thanks, but do we legally need one?

Aquamania

J_B wrote: »

Thanks, but do we legally need one?

I could say No, as I think that is the answer you would prefer

Or I could say yes, as that would support the above reply given in good faith..

Either way, whichever answer of mine you elect to take, I may be wrong.


My advice is to seek independant legal advice, as you may later need to rely upon it!

J_B

Aquamania wrote: »

My advice is to seek independant legal advice, as you may later need to rely upon it!

The lift installers have sent me an HSE pdf (INDG339(rev1) )
Thorough examination and testing of lifts
Simple guidance for lift owners

which says ..
The Lifting Operations and Lifting Equipment Regulations 1998 (LOLER) introduced new requirements for the safe provision and use of lifting equipment. Regulation 9 of LOLER requires that all lifts provided for use in work activities are thoroughly examined by a competent person at regular intervals. This applies to lifts and hoists used to lift people or loads. If you are a lift owner or someone responsible for the safe operation of a lift used at work, such as a facilities manager or supervisor, you are a ‘dutyholder’ under LOLER. This means that you have a legal responsibility to ensure that the lift is thoroughly examined and that it is safe to use.

(If you are the owner of a lift used primarily by members of the public, you may also find this guidance helps you to comply with more general health and safety legal duties under the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974.)


I've underlined the bits that are confusing me
The top bit just refers to 'use at work' - which it isn't
The 2nd bit just says 'if' and 'may' which ain't much help


If it has to be done, then so be it, but if it's just another box ticking exercise that I don't need to do, then I'd sooner keep my £80 (?) twice a year.

J_B

phill99 wrote: »

But as it is in a holiday let, it would be classed as a commercial lift, and therefore covered by LOLER.


Have a look here.


http://www.hse.gov.uk/work-equipment-machinery/lift-equipment.htm

If I follow that link through to the page entitled 'Passenger lifts and Escalators' it says:-
LOLER does not apply to escalators or any travelators / moving walkways which transport people, even though they may 'lift' people from one level to another.


Then further down:-
Passenger lifts used by people who are not at work

LOLER (and PUWER) may not apply where a passenger lift is not used by people at work (eg in public areas of a shopping centre).





????

Savvy_Sue

One question in such situations: does our insurer advise or require this?

Another would be: what makes a person competent to carry out such inspections?

And another would be an actual risk assessment on the use of the lift: what might go wrong? And how serious would it be?

I remember when I did a H&S basic course, we discussed the PA testing requirements. The tutor suggested that any of us could quite easily become competent to carry out PA testing - you don't have to be a qualified electrician.

HOWEVER, specifically relating to PA testing, there's a piece of kit that needs to be calibrated or inspected or something at regular intervals, and that doesn't come cheap.

AND there's a general point: if I'm personally going to carry out the PA testing at work, then there's a risk that I'll be too busy to carry it out when I planned to do so, and then something else will crop up, and then another thing, and before you know it we haven't done the PA testing for 3 years because there was always something more urgent.

Whereas if I employ a specialist to come in and do it, they will do it on the day we agreed, and chances are they'll remind me at the same time next year.

BTW, the way I read those regulations you quote, I'd be leaning towards having it done. I'd also want a maintenance contract on it. My parents had a stairlift for several years: they didn't HAVE to pay for a service contract on it, but they did want to know that if it failed, there was someone to call. Plus it meant the battery was replaced regularly, before it failed, and if any other parts started to reach the end of their life they would be replaced. But I'd be surprised if there was a definite answer to the 'must I legally do this?' question.

You could of course phone the HSE for advice.

J_B

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I'd also want a maintenance contract on it.

The only reason this issue came up was because we were taking out a maintenance contract (new lift - warranty ending) and the 'seller' mentioned it to us.


Good point about insurers (also due for renewal) - I will check

spenderdave

Never heard of LOLER and its certificate until read this thread. We have an annual maintenance certificate for our church lift and he gives us a signed certificate each time, much check whether it has LOLER mentioned..

Pennywise

I can't add anything, but reading the above and the doubt as to what, if anything, needs to be done to be compliant, it starts to explain how Grenfell happened. There should be NO doubt - it should be a simple yes or no answer for the OP. The people drafting and managing these building H&S laws/regulations need to up their game and start offering clarity.

Tigsteroonie

Given that your holiday home probably caters for disabled people (hence the lift), surely you'd do everything necessary to minimise potential issues?