Flint wall restoration

april89

Hi,

Our garden wall requires partial repointing and for the tile capping to be removed and replaced (a number of new - reclaimed - tiles will be needed as a number are missing). Do any members have any experience in the typical cost of flint wall restoration in general? And then specifically what we might expect to pay for our job per square meter (for repointing) and per meter (for the tile caps)?

Our wall is about 25m long and maybe 1.7m tall so it isn't an unsubstantial piece of work but we've just been quoted £19,000. :eek: :eek: :eek: We had expected it to cost a little bit but had been thinking more in the region of £4,000, not five times that!

Have we just been extremely naive? Or is the quote we were provided excessively high? Any suggestions for the best people to approach for a cost effective job which will still be done well? If anyone knows of anyone we're in the South on the Hampshire/Wiltshire border.

Sadly if it's going to cost close to £19,000, or even more than £5,000 (or very close) there is no way we will be able to proceed with the work. We know the work should last for decades once done but that could pay for so much more and the wall, whilst lovely, isn't worth that much for the aesthetic in our current financial situation.

Alternatively has anyone repaired, re-pointed and recapped a flint wall by themselves before? Is it complicated or is this something that we might be able to have a go at doing ourselves? We would be willing to change the cap type/style if this made our job much easier and we're not totally inexperienced DIYers but would rather not make the wall worse or loose an entire summers worth of weekends to the job.

Thank you! :beer:

FreeBear

Do you know when the wall was originally built ?
If the wall is part of a listed property or within a conservation area, this could have an impact on the cost of repair. Even so, £19,000 does sound excessive.

april89

Thanks FreeBear.

We don't have any definitive information for the age of the wall but it is possibly from the mid 19th century. We are within a conservation area but there are no terms regarding the walls of non listed properties and our house is a typical 1980's build so we don't have any listed concerns. We understand from plans that when our house was built (as one of three) some of our neighbours wall was knocked down as part of the building conditions, to allow better vehicle access around a tight bend in the road.

stuart45

I have repaired a few flint walls when I lived in Sussex, and they can take a fair bit of time compared to a brick wall. 19 grand does seem a lot, so I would try and get some more estimates. Could be the builder didn't really want the job.
Is there any rebuilding to do apart from pointing? Has it got brick lacing courses?
A few photos would help'

Apodemus

There was a thread a few years back on the PPUK forum where one of the regulars had his flint garden wall collapse after repeated splashing of water from the road. It might be worth having a search for that (I think the poster was Pford). I can’t remember the ins and outs, but I think it was a hugely costly exercise, even after a contribution from insurance, so your quotes may be in the right ballpark.

There are a number of posters on here (including at least one on this thread!) who are also regulars on PPUK, so perhaps they can remember more about that previous thread?

I would be surprised if a flint wall in a conservation area was not an important element and needing to be repaired as-is, irrespective of the listing status of the actual house.

FreeBear

Apodemus wrote: »

There was a thread a few years back on the PPUK forum where one of the regulars had his flint garden wall collapse after repeated splashing of water from the road.

Not hard to find - https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9730

Apodemus

2008! :eek: Where does the time go! Shame the pics are no longer live. I see the quote was £30k!

april89

Thanks everyone. I read our conservation area guidance very carefully as I was surprised that it wasn't more protected as well but there was nothing in our deeds and nothing written in the guidance to suggest we have further obligations towards the wall. I can't think of anywhere else it would be stated? However, morally we feel very obliged to look after it so intend to do something regardless!

Thank you for the link to the PPUK forum. I will try to digest that over the next couple of days.
Stuart45, I've attached a couple of pictures. None of the wall requires rebuilding apart from the capping and a small section about 1ftx1ft6" where six stones (which we still have) have fallen out but this doesn't go through the wall. Not all of the wall requires repointing either and it's far from falling down but there are a few areas like in the second photo which have worn more heavily and we would rather take the approach of a stitch in time....

From what I understand we do have a brick lacing course.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhpB71Nu_iWdhEScjYzH6a6c_yn8

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhpB71Nu_iWdhEUtH2JBdCbl0t8R


We will definitely approach a few other builders for comparative quotes but if it does look like we could expect the bill to be in double figures I think my husband and I will need to learn how to do a bit of repointing.

FreeBear

Judging by the second image, the original mortar appears to be a lime based mix. There also appears to be a few globs of modern portland cement in a couple of spots. Those are the dark grey patches at the lower right hand side and along the base of the wall.


Using regular cement mortar to repoint the wall will be fairly cheap and look OK for a few years. But it will crack and eventually fall out, and the job will need doing again... There is a wall of similar construction that I pass each day on the way in to work - This had been patched with cement in the past and has deteriorated quite badly over the last few years. A lime mortar would have been much more appropriate.

Apodemus

Lovely old wall and well worth the effort to conserve!

Getting a professional to do pointing work is always expensive as (done properly) it is a slow process. The tools and materials are very cheap, it is the time that adds up and ends up being expensive.

I would suggest that, if you are at all inclined, that your wall could be a DIY job. If you are working with a non-hydraulic lime mix rather than cement, you can take a relaxed approach - the mortar can be kept damp in an airtight tub and used as and when you have a spare half hour. The bricks look quite soft and a couple are badly spalled, so I would think that this should be a lime job rather than cement.

Although pointing should normally be a bottom-up job, I think if I was doing it and I knew it was going to be a labour of love over a prolonged period, I would do a quick (and perhaps temporary) job on the capping tiles to stop further water penetration and deterioration.

Pointing is very therapeutic...enjoy!

EDIT: of course another question is what is happening on the other side of the wall? Do you have access to repoint that, too? Is there a road there? If not, are your neighbours maintaining their side?

april89

FreeBear, you're right. I don't know whether the previous owners didn't know, or care, but there are a few cement patches here and there. We fully intend to use lime mortar ourselves.

Apodemus, thank you. The wall is a lovely feature in our garden. The other side of the wall backs onto the road. If we get it professionally repointed we will need to get traffic light control but otherwise access is thankfully easy.

The only thing we aren't entirely sure about is how to manage the boundary between our section of the wall and our neighbours. In one direction it is fine but for our other neighbour it is probably slightly worse than ours and the boundary is not one of the brick pillars but half way through the flint work. I imagine we'll end up getting their part of that section done too as although it faces the road it will bother me each time I drive past otherwise!

Thank you also for your advice about how to DIY the wall. I'm still hoping that we can get a much lower quote as the time we'd need to put aside would be hard to find but if we can easily pick it up and put it down over the summer that is more feasible. It's just a shame that lime is a little toxic so it's probably not wise to accompany summer evening pointing with a glass of wine!

Out of interest, has anyone got any experience roughly (for an experienced pointer) the sort of square meterage they may achieve in a day? We aren't expecting it to be a short job but had imagined the pointing and capping may take a skilled person about four weeks to complete?