Subsidance on Ground Floor Flat

yimpster

Hi guys, I hope this is the correct place to ask this question. Apologies for the long message, but hoping I provide you with the right info first time round.



My parents own a ground floor flat in NE London and they noticed a few months ago that the tile levels in the kitchen had dropped along with cabinets and kitchen floor looked uneven. Outside the property there are cracks on the paving.



We recruited a specialist to carry out an internal and external survey specifically looking at the damage caused as we expected subsidence. The report is 8 pages long but to summarise the partts that are relevant.


But to put in context these flats were built in the 1960's. My grandmother lived there for about 10 years until she died and now my parents have been there for about 10 years. Never had any problems until this year.



The report noted a

Mature hornbeam 5.5m from flat (this tree was huge in the next door property and recently cut back on our insistence)

Mature holly 3m
Mature lilac 1.5m
Built on clay


The summer experienced one of the longest and hottest in over 40 years, likely that the clay became dessicated and shrunk.


Likely aggravated by the presence of large trees in the adjacent property.


"It is there opinion that given the likely structural isolation of the ground floor bearing slab at ground floor level, its relative shallow footing compared to the relatively deep footing of the external wall that the ground floor slab has suffered from subsidence as a result of the excessively dry clay"


The report recommends we contact our insurers as it is likely subsidence of one form or another. Further investigations should be taken generally.


When we contacted our insurers they sent an engineer from the "Innovation Group" but we don't know what type of engineer was sent.



The engineer states the cause to be normal wear and tear and thermal movement and there is not any significant structural defects.


No evidence of of subsidence damage to the main walls of the address the damage being limited to small localised area of the kitchen floor which has sunk. This is commonly encountered problem and is the result of the slab being cast onto poorly compacted fill, usually of poor quality. Some movement will almost certainly have taken place shortly after the property was built. After, there may have been periodic bouts of movement due to downwards migration of the finer particles and gravity.



The insurers response was that is not covered as it is excluded under the following clauses.


"Damage caused by normal settlement or shrinkage or expansion of parts of the building or damage caused by faulty materials, design or poor workmanship" or "any other damage caused gradually"


"Damage to swimming pools, ornamental ponds and fountains, hard courts, terraces, patios, drives, footpaths, walls, gates, fences, hedges or fixed tanks providing fuel to the home, unless we also accept a claim for subsidence, heave or landslip damage to the home"


So I guess my question what do do we do next? Do the insurers have a solid exclusion cause or is there something I can do make this claim valid. Do I need a different type of survey done or need help from a specialist loss adjuster?



My mum is seriously disabled and actually fell due to the sunken floor and ended up in hospital for 3 months.(she does trip sometimes due to her disability so i'm not sure we can entirely blame the floor).



So we need to get this fixed asap, they have started to speak to builders to get the floor fixed but i'm worried they may just be covering over the problem.


Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this and any help you can offer.

huckster

Based on the information you have posted, I believe the Insurers are most likely to be correct.

The Buildings Insurance policy wordings I have seen, exclude failure of the floor slab, unless there is an acceptance of the walls being subject to subsidence at the same time.

The claims I have seen where the floors have sunk in this way, as the material below the slab have stopped supporting the slab, have always been declined, unless new evidence has been found that the buildings walls have also been affected by subsidence. So a further structural engineers report looking for evidence of subsidence to walls would be a next step.

Does your Mum pay into any Flats maintenance reserve funds, that are sometimes managed by companies looking after flats on behalf of the flats owners ? Can such a reserve fund help your Mum pay for any works not covered by Insurance ?

It might be worth seeking out specialists that carry out works to help with such floor slab issues. Perhaps get some estimates for work, before you spend money on new surveys reports.

yimpster

Thanks for the reply - really appreciated.


I had a feeling that the exclusion clause was valid so wanted to check before kicking up a fuss.


I don't really understand buildings or subsidence. What I'm concerned about is just patching over the problem by fixing the kitchen etc.



Do we need to do further investigations to ensure this problem doesn't get worse and the same thing happen to the kitchen (or worse) again?

huckster

It might be worth having drainage inspected using CCTV, just to make sure there is no problem with drainage water causing the problem or being a factor. If there is a drain problem, that this would need to be resolved.

I would have thought the surveyors you employed would have suggested this.


There may be modern methods to cure problems with the floor slab moving, without having to dig up too much of the ground floor. Have a look online, to see what you can find out and employ specialists.

yimpster

huckster wrote: »

It might be worth having drainage inspected using CCTV, just to make sure there is no problem with drainage water causing the problem or being a factor. If there is a drain problem, that this would need to be resolved.

I would have thought the surveyors you employed would have suggested this.


There may be modern methods to cure problems with the floor slab moving, without having to dig up too much of the ground floor. Have a look online, to see what you can find out and employ specialists.

Yes they did suggest getting CCTV of the drains. Sounds like a good place to start to make sure there's nothing else sinister going on underneath.


Thanks again for your reply. Very much appreciated.