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Item Not Delivered

So I sold a beauty item which came as part of a large set - I didn't want that item.

Buyer paid, item sent.

Buyer messaged today saying the bubble wrap envelope arrived open with nothing inside, so basically RM delivered an opened empty envelope.

Do I just go ahead and give a refund or do I have to ask the buyer to open a case? When I claim off RM, would I need the empty envelope back or will a photo of it suffice?

Many thanks.
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Comments

  • girlchops
    girlchops Posts: 342 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper
    Hi mimi1234,
    So annoying when this has happens because you then have to spend the time chasing up and of course you can only take the buyer's word however do you have a proof of posting? If yes I would look into what you need in order to claim from RM before issuing a refund. Once you've issued the refund your buyer will have no incentive to co-operate with you IYSWIM. In the first instance i would tell the buyer you'll need photos of the packaging in order to follow up with Royal Mail and tell them to keep hold of it as Royal Mail might require it. Tell them that their refund will be forthcoming but if they shrink away or don't respond you will know they were trying it on and might have saved yourself some money. Of course they could be absolutely genuine but you must also cover yourself to make sure you follow eBay and RM's procedures whatever that is.
    In the first instance have a look at Rm's website. I found this link on RM's site and it might help you https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2389
    See the section for 'My item arrived damaged' There's info on what to do if your item arrives damaged or missing. I realise you are the seller and sender so you're the one who can claim if you have a POP.

    You can also call RM on
    "Call us
    03457 740 740. We're open Monday to Friday, 8am-6pm, Saturday 8am-1pm and Sunday 9am-2pm"

    I found them really helpful but had to queue around 45 minutes to speak to someone but it just before Christmas!! Hopefully you won't have to wait that long but they are very helpful once you get through and will tell you exactly what is required of you to make your claim. I'm newish to eBay selling so when I had several issues just before Christmas I had no idea what i needed to do so spoke to them for guidance. Each time I was asked whether I had proof of posting, they were very helpful and my claims were paid out quickly after I'd submitted them online. I'm not saying that you should wait to be reimbursed by RM before refunding that's your call but I would definitely let your buyer open a case before issuing a refund and speak to RM CS and possibly eBay CS too before refunding any money.
    HTH somehow
    :beer:
  • theonlywayisup
    theonlywayisup Posts: 16,032 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Have you asked the buyer to send you a pic of the bit they received? How did you pack the item, could it have been squeezed out of the envelope by the sorting machine?
  • mimi1234
    mimi1234 Posts: 7,968 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Thanks both. I really appreciate your help - especially the huge post with all the information GIRLCHOPS - you are a love x x

    The buyer has sent me photos and it looks legit. However, normally when RM deliver a damaged envelope parcel, it has some sort of bag over it but I will take the buyers word for it.

    I do have proof of postage and that's not an issue.

    I feel bad for the buyer because they want to buy another one but are short of cash. It seems like they can't open a case on eBay until x amount of days have passed. If this is correct, I may just have to refund them. I really don't want them to be out of pocket if RM have messed up.

    I will phone RM tomorrow and see what they say.
  • girlchops
    girlchops Posts: 342 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper
    You're very welcome mimi1234 i'm glad to help when i can which isn't very often as I don't have as much experience with eBay selling as many others.
    Did your buyer pay with PayPal? If yes as much as you want to help your buyer please do not refund before a case has been opened. You need a case to protect yourself so the buyer can't make another claim through PayPal. One of the eBay forum elders/gurus may come along and confirm or correct me but i'm 99% sure they're always saying not to refund without a case because you as the seller can get hit by a double whammy.
    eBay's CS might still be open until 10pm and i think their chat is there till midnight. The case is also a way for you to show what you've been doing to resolve this and won't be held against you as you'e going to refund anyway. Just please protect yourself so that you aren't left out of pocket either.
    Please let us know what happens because it could help others too.
    Have a lovely evening
    :)
  • girlchops
    girlchops Posts: 342 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper
    p.s. I don't think there's a time limit before opening a case. I think that a buyer can open a case as soon as they realise there's a problem. Out of courtesy they should speak to seller first but there's nothing to stop them directly opening a case. Ebay should be able to tell you which case should be opened whether it's item not received or something else. There's a time limit for seller to resolve within 8 days or eBay will step in and decide but that's not an issue for you as you've already said you'll refund them.
    Good Luck with it all
  • forgotmyname
    forgotmyname Posts: 32,955 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Had a courier deliver an empty box before, deliberately held the box in a way to hide the open end (long square tube). He just handed over the box and was gone.. Wife closed the door and thought thats light, turned it over to see it open and empty, opened the door to call the driver and he was driving away quickly.

    Did he really think a customer would not complain?? Quite an expensive item also.

    When packing stuff myself i make 100% sure it's well packaged. Adding plenty of tape to the final package for good measure.

    If its a jiffybag i add staples to the ends and then add tape for a belts and braces approach.
    Censorship Reigns Supreme in Troll City...

  • mgdavid
    mgdavid Posts: 6,710 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    mimi1234 wrote: »
    Thanks both. I really appreciate your help - especially the huge post with all the information GIRLCHOPS - you are a love x x

    The buyer has sent me photos and it looks legit. - how so?
    However, normally when RM deliver a damaged envelope parcel, it has some sort of bag over it - exactly, so why doesn't it?
    but I will take the buyers word for it.- really?


    I do have proof of postage and that's not an issue.

    I feel bad for the buyer - why, not your problem? because they want to buy another one but are short of cash. - that old sob story!
    It seems like they can't open a case on eBay until x amount of days have passed. - AFAIK that's not true, they are having you on

    If this is correct, I may just have to refund them. I really don't want them to be out of pocket if RM have messed up.

    I will phone RM tomorrow and see what they say.


    So many cases of scammer buyers on ebay, I really don't understand how you can fall for it so easily. Just make sure you read up on all the rules and processes so you know more than they do, then follow the process to the letter. Don't allow yourself to be vulnerable, or to feel sorry for them.
    The questions that get the best answers are the questions that give most detail....
  • theonlywayisup
    theonlywayisup Posts: 16,032 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Ask the buyer to open a case on eBay for Not As Described. When the case is open you can refund through the case. Whether you believe the buyer or not is not really up for debate as there is no way you could counter claim and win a case in this situation, ime.

    @girlchops - there is no way a buyer can claim a double whammy refund - the buyer can get a refund without a case being opened but it will cause issues for the seller with fee refunds/possible defects. I think you may be thinking of the scenario where the seller sends money to the buyer and then the buyer can claim on the original payment? The problems arise if a seller sends money rather than refunding the original payment. If a seller refunds a payment (regardless of a case being open) the payment cannot be claimed twice.

    The correct way is to get the buyer to open the case, this makes sure the seller gets their fees reimbursed and they remain defect free.

    Back to the op, if you get them to open the case and you can refund once it's open. As soon as you refund through the case, the fees are taken care of, you remain defect free and the buyer gets their refund. It is up to you if you want to pay for the buyer to send the empty packaging back so you can claim from RM, but in all honesty claims for damage with RM are notoriously hard to win.
  • PDC
    PDC Posts: 805 Forumite
    It does sound odd if it was well packed.

    As said though I imagine anything would be difficult to prove.

    If you are going to refund the buyer I would at least leave feedback for them first, saying in it you are sorry the item went missing - At least that may be a flag on their account if it happens with them for another seller.

    I would also certainly make a claim with Royal Mail as well, I doubt they will want you to send them the actual packaging.
  • Royal Mail can take 3 or 4 weeks to reply to a claim and *will* sometimes ask for the packaging, so you need to tell the buyer to retain it.
    Warning: any unnecessary disclaimers appearing under my posts do not bear any connection with reality, either intended, accidental or otherwise. Your statutory rights are not affected.
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