Help With Light Fitting

anotheruser

I have this:



Two grey wires come in from the ceiling, each contain three wires.
The new light fitting has three connectors.

The earth is easy as I can bundle them together and connect that, correct?

I have a neutral wire that goes from one grey wire to the neutral side.
I have a neutral wire that goes from the other grey wire to the live side of the panel.

I have a red wire that comes from each grey wire that both go into the loop section.

How do I wire this up?

I guess this is the last light on the circuit, which is why I have just two grey cables?
If it was mid circuit, I guess I'd have a third cable going out?

AndyMc.....

No, you have a black going to the live and one to the neutral so you have a switched live. Is the new fitting the same or a different type?

If it's a new light then a black to e live and neutral and all the reds together. Alternatively get someone who knows what they're doing.

anotheruser

The new light fitting has a choc block for earth, live and neutral.

So one black to live, one to neutral and the reds both together, joining the black in the live block?

I can understand when simple terms are used, but I don't know what a switched live is, loop in, whatever else.

On a side note, I don't understand why lights are fitted on a ring connected together like this. Makes it rather complicated to other electrical projects I do.

anotheruser

Right, think I understand it.

Black wire that is currently in the N section of the old light goes to the N section of the new light. Earth's are together in the earth section of the new light.

The reds get twisted together.

The black wire that was in the L(ine) section of the old light gets put with the reds and all together into the L(ive)section of the new light, as this black wire is really the switched live from the light switch allowing electric to pass through the switch to the light?

Cornucopia

Sounds/looks like the new fitting is a complete fitting and the existing fitting is a traditional ceiling rose with pendant fitting.

Although the manufacturers always seem to put a small 3-way chocolate block into these light fixtures, they really aren't suitable, especially if the plan is to remove the ceiling rose (perhaps because the new fixture won't fit over the wiring otherwise. You'll need a 4-way piece of chocolate block (ideally with some kind of overall covering), and of a large enough size to accommodate the 2xLive and 3xEarth connections.

Something like this: https://www.screwfix.com/p/debox-in-line-connector-box/8692h




Also, our standard disclaimer for Electrical work threads: if you are at all unclear about the work, please seek out someone who knows what they are doing. Our advice here is no substitute for that.

AndyMc.....

anotheruser wrote: »

Right, think I understand it.

Black wire that is currently in the N section of the old light goes to the N section of the new light. Earth's are together in the earth section of the new light.

The reds get twisted together.

The black wire that was in the L(ine) section of the old light gets put with the reds and all together into the L(ive)section of the new light, as this black wire is really the switched live from the light switch allowing electric to pass through the switch to the light?

Absolutely not use a mechanical fixing.

Cornucopia

If you are planning on removing the ceiling rose, then you need to replicate the 4 connections above. (Which you won't be able to do with a 3-way chocolate block).

1 - Earth - all earth leads need connecting together. If the new light fixture has any metal parts, or is provided with an Earth connection then it MUST be connected here.

2 - Fixed Neutral - incoming neutral and fitting neutral.

3 - Fixed Live - connect both live incoming cables together, but do not make a connection to the light fixture.

4 - Switched Live - connect the second Black lead to the fixture's live connection. (This is NOT a neutral connection, but a switched live from the wall switch - it ought to have a small piece of red sleeving to indicate this).

I'm not sure what you mean by "The black wire that was in the L(ine) section of the old light gets put with the reds". Hopefully you mean that the new fitting has a bunch of red wires leading from the individual lamps to the chocolate block, in which case - yes. Otherwise - no.

Ectophile

Twisting lives together is just nasty. Use a proper terminal block.



Otherwise, gradual oxidation will make the joint go bad. And there's an unwelcome surprise for the next person when they find a couple of bare live wires to touch. You might try wrapping tape around them, but it will only fall off again sooner or later.

TheCyclingProgrammer

If you are removing the ceiling rose then you really need an appropriate enclosure box and 4x appropriate connectors - wago blocks are nice and easy, or appropriately rated connector blocks that can accommodate the number of wires needed.

Do not think of trying to twist anything together - taped or otherwise.

Each connector replicates four terminals on the rose - earth, neutral, loop and switched live. Connect the wires from the ceiling to each connector in the same arrangement as the existing ceiling rose.

Connect the live, neutral and earth from the fitting to the switched live, neutral and earth terminals. Secure terminals in enclosure and poke it back through the hole. Secure light to ceiling.

anotheruser

Hmm.

Sorry if I come across rude. I really don't mean it, I just don't understand.
I also don't think it helps that the switched live (which goes into the "line" section of the current rose) isn't marked at all - it's just the same colour as the other neutral.

For example, why doesn't electric go from the fuse box to a junction box, then from there to each light switch? Which then turns on or off electric to each light, rather than all the lights linked through cables that go from one to the other?

And if i'm just looping the live wires (connecting them together?) why are they present in the ceiling rose at all?

I've drawn a picture of what I have:


For clarity, I get the Earth wires, so they're... err.. folded out of the way in the picture :P


So from what @Cornucopia has said, I should end up a bit like this:


So I'm okay putting the live wires in each side of a choc block?

Although I'd probably link the live wires in each side of a single choc block connector and connect the others to the choc block on the light fitting directly.

AndyMc..... wrote: »

Absolutely not use a mechanical fixing.

Ectophile wrote: »

Twisting lives together is just nasty. Use a proper terminal block.

TheCyclingProgrammer wrote: »

Do not think of trying to twist anything together - taped or otherwise.

Sorry I didn't explain very well.
I'd never just twist them and leave them. I meant that the two live wires, together with the switched live would go into the live connection of the choc block on the light fitting.
HOWEVER: I now see even this thought was wrong.

It's easy to assume that a light fitting needs a red live connection, because if it doesn't need the red live wires how will the light get power? Back to the question of why are they present at all in the ceiling if they're not needed?

I also get that Waygo connectors are better but when I looked they come in all different sizes and ratings. Don't have a clue what I'd need I have about 20 sticks of 20 choc blocks so that's why I have a preference for using them.
Maybe I'll have another look at using them.

EssexExile

I'm really worried that you don't understand what you are dealing with, you should do some reading up on the matter to understand how house wiring is done before attempting to do any changes.

From what I can see from the photo you have a cable bringing power to the rose & a cable to & from the switch, there is no "loop". But that is only what I can see, nobody knows what the last person did!