Britannia & BW Legal SOA stage

desk_tecky

My head is swimming I am afraid and I am not sure I have the mental capacity for this! I received a PCN in 2015. Did as was suggested at the time and ignored everything - never responded to anything. Received all the usual letters and then they went away.


December 2018, they re-surface and now I am at the point that I have had the Northampton letter, done the AOS - have 3 weeks left and I am now drowning with the legaleese and thinking I was better to have paid in the first place!


I bought a parking ticket and over-ran are the circumstances. I just object to the principle of their "invoice" and thought it was an easy process to evade. Now faced with wigs and gowns and getting a little concerned?


Tim

Le_Kirk

No wigs and gowns (unless you want to wear them). Take a look at the NEWBIE section post # 2 and in there you will find a guide to the small claims court and what it looks like. Also you will find well written, concise defences for you to use and adapt.

KeithP

desk_tecky wrote: »

...now I am at the point that I have had the Northampton letter, done the SOA...

Does that say that you have received a Claim Form from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton and you have already done the Acknowledgement of Service?

If so, can you please tell us the Issue Date on that Claim Form?

Umkomaas

BRITANNIA or NCP / BW LEGAL CASES

As you will see from the first few pages of the forum, there is an onslaught by BWL on behalf of Britannia or NCP (and a few other hitherto court-shy PPCs) which is being conducted on an industrial scale - roboclaims.

You are caught in a one-way traffic flow where you must fight or pay - there is no longer a safe 'do nothing' option.

1. Pay now, it costs you exactly what they are currently demanding.
2. Ignore it, a 'judgment in default' will inevitably follow for at least what they want - maybe with even more costs added; continue to ignore that, you're getting a CCJ with credit trashing consequences for 6 years.
3. Defend, yet lose in court, the cost award is likely to be noticeably less than their current demand ~£175.
4. Defend, and win in court, you owe them nothing and you could claim up to £95 for half a day's pay/loss of annual leave, plus travel costs @45p per mile, plus your parking cost for the day.

Your least costly option has to be 3, with hopefully a win as per 4.

But BWL/Britannia or NCP cannot physically take everyone to court, and there is evidence to show that with a well constructed defence, BWL can come along with a reduced 'offer to settle', which if refused, becomes a discontinuation. We can't give you guarantees on that, but as you have little choice other than to defend (if you don't want to pay), you need to give this your very best shot.

Whether you have a good defendable case to argue, you will need to read other similar cases at the defence (or beyond) stage and learn from those.

ROBOCLAIMS - HOW BWL OPERATE

You might find it useful to understand how BWL operate - as I have surmised from the hundreds of different threads I've read involving BWL.

Other than the auto acknowledgements and template letters, you will get nothing sensible from BWL - they are dealing with literally hundreds of thousands of unpaid parking charges and are spewing out various threatening letters, using a conveyor belt approach to go through a computer controlled process towards a LBC, and a MCOL Claim - and it is really only at the final stages, as a court hearing becomes a possibility, that there's any real human intervention.

You need to understand that you're not dealing with an old fashioned firm of solicitors, just progressing from a quill and ink operation, BWL are industrial harvesters of debt, using the equivalent of massive combine harvesters to do their work. This is what their website tells you:

A multi-award winning law firm specialising in volume collections, across both regulated and unregulated sectors, who are dual regulated through the FCA and SRA.

We employ around 265 people at our Leeds based office which in turn makes us the largest privately owned debt collection law firm in the UK.

desk_tecky

am away from the paperwork, but I did the AOS last week, so should have 3 weeks to go.

desk_tecky

26 Feb on the claim form
AOS received on 7 Mar 19


What do I do now, I still see no robust defence that I can use - I object to them being able to charge me at all for over-staying - is that just lame?


thanks


Tim

KeithP

desk_tecky wrote: »

26 Feb on the claim form
AOS received on 7 Mar 19

With a Claim Issue Date of 26th February, and having done the Acknowledgement of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 1st April 2019 to file your Defence.

That's over two weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:

Print your Defence.
1. Sign it and date it.
   
2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
   
4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
   
6. Do not be surprised to receive a copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to put you under pressure.
   
7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.

desk_tecky

Thanks - had found the sequence of events from having read through the forums, but it's nice to have it in my thread.


What I have been unable to find is an example defence that uses the fact that these guys have no legal grounds to issue fines. Lots of talk of specific reasons like signage etc...


Are you able to point me to something that I can use? As I have said before, I do not have the mental capacity for this as like everyone I have a lot going on in my life at the moment and memory loss is really not helping. Would appreciate any help given.

AnotherVoice

How long was the drivers over stay? A minute, an hour, a week?
As the registered keeper of the vehicle, not nessecarily the driver, they have to adhere to POFA 2012 to hold the keeper liable. In 2015 it is likely the documents they sent you (invoices essentially) did not meet the requirements to hold the keeper liable. That is where you start your defence.

If it turns out the driver overstayed by a small amount of time, say twenty minutes, that could be considered part of the grace period, where perhaps you went looking for more change to pay, read the conditions and decided to leave.

POFA 2012
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

Recently it seems (to me) that when it gets to the court stage (and i mean the hearing date) that the claimaint is deciding not to use POFA after all, and asking the court to 'assume' the keeper was driving, but, i dont know how that holds up, especially if they have sought the details from the DVLA to issue the invoice to the keeper.

You can write to the DVLA and find out who, and why your keeper details were requested, even if you no longer have that vehicle.

You should also make sure you do an SAR to both BW and Britannia it may be too late now to get the info before your defence is due but it is worth getting the info anyway.

There are a lot of BWL defences around, this one for example https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5976762/bw-legal-county-court-claim-support

I am by no means an expert on this, just someone in a similar situation to yourself. What i have noted from my interaction with BWL and threads here, is that they seem to want to push you to pay as hard as possible, using the threat of a CCJ as the stick, they ignore all your correspondance with them and continue with automated letters. For example i have received two letters from them saying 'you must respond to us or the court or you will get a CCJ, please pay us now' and that is SINCE i have filed my defence.

I appreciate how stressful it can be, as a sufferer of Anxiety and Depression, it can definitley get the better of you and make you think paying is the better choice. However i decided that if i am going to have to pay them, im going to make it as hard as possible for them to get the money and that means i am prepared to go all the way to a court hearing, you never know, you may win and get to claim money back from them!

Umkomaas

What I have been unable to find is an example defence that uses the fact that these guys have no legal grounds to issue fines.

That will be enshrined somewhere in UK law, but as you haven't been issued with a 'fine' (private companies cannot issue fines, only statutory authorities can), I haven't gone searching for the link, as it will be irrelevant to your case.

If what you meant was 'What I have been unable to find is an example defence that uses the fact that these guys have no legal grounds to issue parking charges.', then you won't find one. Like it or not, private parking companies do have the grounds through which to issue parking charges, you have to determine and argue where they have failed to follow the rules/due process to be able to succeed in their claim against you. You will find that every defence will be raising numerous such issues.