PCN from Euro Car Parks

Silvervend

Hello everybody.

I read the FAQ and I just want to confirm that I understood everything from it.

I received PCN from Euro Car Parks (Morrison in Blackburn). The letter says that on 28/02/2019 I was the registered keeper of the vehicle, 2 pictures with my reg plates and time+date of entry and exit. I stayed there 3h and 5min, though parking allows only 2h stay (which I found out today...).

Now I will appeal on their web page with the template, in which I will sign as a Keeper, not the driver:

Dear Sir or Madam,

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

- If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,

Is it correct? Have I missed something?

Cheers!

KeithP

Silvervend wrote: »

Is it correct?

Yes.

Silvervend wrote: »

Have I missed something?

What about complaining to Morrisons?

Silvervend

What about complaining to Morrisons?

Should I do it in the store?

KeithP

See how others have done it.

Read this thread:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5961346/parking-eye-letter-before-county-court-claim

or this one:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5947307/parkingeye-letter-before-county-court-claim-with-address-changed


Those and many more can be found by using the forum's search facility with the word Morrisons.

The_Deep

Complain to your MP.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem become so widespread that MPs agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. It has cleared Parliament and hopefully, this will become law shortly.

Silvervend

Hello again,

I have received a reply from Euro Car Parks that they rejected my appeal. This is the answer:

Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for
the following reasons:
 The car park is operated by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) – cameras capture
an image of vehicles entering and leaving the car park and calculate their length of stay.
 Parking at the above site is limited to 2 hours.
 On entry to private land it is the responsibility of the driver to check for signage and ensure
that your vehicle has been correctly parked.
 Please find provided photographic evidence of the vehicle entering and exiting the site, time-
and date-stamped to detail the length of time spent on site.
 Your vehicle was parked longer than 2 hours, therefore the notice was issued correctly and
remains payable.

Any advice? Or should I pay it? The provided me with 2 pictures but still you can't see who was driving. They said as well they do not allow any appeals through their site anymore.

Cheers!

Coupon-mad

Why are you asking for advice when you saw the NEWBIES thread for first appeal (so you know where the main resource is on this forum) and already know that NO-ONE is silly or naive enough to pay ECP, ever, and that the third post of the NEWBIES thread tells you how to try a POPLA appeal.

Show us yours! Like everyone else with a daft ECP piece of paper.

Silvervend

I am not an expert in appeals that is why I am asking.

Your post says that I should not mention who was driving. So how am I supposed to mix that with being a genuine customer who accidentaly overstayed?

KeithP

Silvervend wrote: »

Your post says that I should not mention who was driving. So how am I supposed to mix that with being a genuine customer who accidentaly overstayed?

By saying something like "we visited your store...".

That does assume the vehicle has more than one seat though.


What happened with your complaint to Morrisons - suggested over three weeks ago?


Did your MP react appropriately?

Redx

you dont mention who was driving , its the job of ECP to prove they have a case in law, not your job to help them

appeals are won on legal arguments , not "what happened" on the day

a recipient of any pcn should complain to the landowner and get it cancelled, which that NEWBIES sticky thread tells EVERYONE to do, before any popla appeal is made (ie:- asap) - especially to Morrissons customer service at head office, or better still to David Potts , the CEO as a customer of the store, as an OCCUPANT of the vehicle , the royal "WE"

there must be some reason why the RK has decided it should not be paid , like being an occupant of the vehicle and a regular store customer with a MATCH & MORE card ?

plus there are the usual legal arguments as to why an RK is not responsible FOR ANY POPLA APPEAL listed in that newbies thread

NO LANDOWNER AUTHORITY
POFA 2012 FAILURES
POOR AND INADEQUATE SIGNAGE
BPA CoP errors and failures
ANPR issues

the list goes on , but its not about what a driver did or did not do on the day , this appeal is from the keeper, not the driver (a big difference in law)

I would be emailing Morrissons asap and getting the pcn cancelled, but ensure that your popla appeal is submitted online before 32 days are up from the popla letter (appeals are upload as a pdf aftwr choosing OTHER)

Coupon-mad

KeithP wrote: »

By saying something like "we visited your store...".

That does assume the vehicle has more than one seat though.


What happened with your complaint to Morrisons - suggested over three weeks ago?

I suspect the complaint needs to go to the overall retail park owner/agents, but an email to the usual Morrisons donotreply email addy is worth a try.

Search this parking forum for Morrisons email, you want the tried & tested one.

The POPLA code will keep for ONE MONTH. and complaints always come first, before POPLA, as most PPCs will dig their heels in about a landowner cancellation, after POPLA is started.