ATM fraud - currency card institution playing funny !!!!!!s

Lizmontague

Hello to you all. I hope you can give me some guidance on recent troubles I am having against a holiday currency card company.

I am a single female in my thirties currently backpacking South East Asia - it is a once in a lifetime trip.

I had hard currency and also 1K on a travel currency card when I left the UK six weeks ago.

In Thailand my ATM card was swallowed by an ATM machine. This was after I had input my pin. There was a sign on the ATM with a Thai phone number to call, if your card was retained.

I immediately went on my currency card companies website and looked for a way to call them. Oddly enough, their site hides any phone number, merely sending customers to a webform to contact them. I filled it in, telling them what had happened and asking for them to send a new card ASAP to my home address.

I also called the number from the sign on the ATM, but could not really get any sense from the non-English speaking Thai people on the other end of the line.

Anyway, ten days later. I called home and asked for a relative to check mail for my card. There was no card there. I then went online, and discovered fraud on the card, two ATM transactions which had wiped out the balance.

I had also not been emailed back by the currency card company. I managed to track down a contact number via Google, and called them. The lady I spoke to was most unhelpful. I told her about the fraud and card retention, and my previous contact, and asked for a new card to be sent. She told me she had locked the card, but would not talk to me as I could not pas security. She was asking me for info from the now gone card, which I obvs could not provide. She then wanted to terminate the call. I insisted this was not good enough service and asked for a manager. She refused to fetch one. I became quite upset and still she refused and insisted on ending the call. She then told me she would get a manager, and then the call terminated. I was not called back. And I also could not afford to make another call and speak to someone else, explaining the situation again.

Anyway. Two weeks later I had all my mail sent to me in Thailand. I then had to wait two weeks for it to clear customs. I picked it up on Monday in Bangkok, on my way to Vietnam. My actual money is almost zero by this point.

There was no replacement card in the package of mail.

I called the company again and complained in the strongest possible terms. The manager I spoke to told me that the previous agent should have advised me that I could send in a copy of my ID in order to pass security and apologised. She informed me that she would email me within 48 hours to confirm the fraud had been reversed. This was after I told her the money was vitally needed and I was worried sick by now.

I planned accordingly, spending the last of my money on flights and accommodation.

48 hours later, and penniless, I got an email from then, to tell me they were sending me a declaration to sign in the next 72 hours so an investigation could take place.

I called again, and the same manager lady I spoke to initially denied her arrangement with me. I then got HER manager on the phone. This lady also initially denied the arrangement. These people were, disgustingly, making ridiculous excuses and trying to dodge their terrible maladministration from start to end.

I ended the call with this horrid woman by telling her I would get all call recordings from my initial call six weeks ago to the one I was currently on, and explained in no uncertain terms the perilous situation I was now in because of all this BS.

The declaration was sent the end of the next day, completed, and returned immediately.

Today, I have received the following:

"The transactions you have disputed were all made with CHIP and PIN. In circumstances where the card has been used to withdraw funds from an ATM via CHIP and PIN there are no chargeback rights on these transactions. This is an industry wide rule and out of our control. Therefore, we are unable to reimburse these transactions. "

This is quite unbelievable, not least because a friend who works for HSBC informs me that I am the victim of ATM fraud where my card has been videocamera-taped and caught by the ATM. Unless the financial institution has reasonable ground to think I am a fraud, they must return the funds ASAP.

Please help me anyone here, I need to know my legal rights.

I will be waiting with bated breath, checking here constantly. Unfortunately, it appears I must return home a month early, and borrow money to change my flight home.

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth

Lizmontague wrote: »

Hello to you all. I hope you can give me some guidance on recent troubles I am having against a holiday currency card company.

I am a single female in my thirties currently backpacking South East Asia - it is a once in a lifetime trip.

I had hard currency and also 1K on a travel currency card when I left the UK six weeks ago.

In Thailand my ATM card was swallowed by an ATM machine. This was after I had input my pin. There was a sign on the ATM with a Thai phone number to call, if your card was retained.

I immediately went on my currency card companies website and looked for a way to call them. Oddly enough, their site hides any phone number, merely sending customers to a webform to contact them. I filled it in, telling them what had happened and asking for them to send a new card ASAP to my home address.

I also called the number from the sign on the ATM, but could not really get any sense from the non-English speaking Thai people on the other end of the line.

Anyway, ten days later. I called home and asked for a relative to check mail for my card. There was no card there. I then went online, and discovered fraud on the card, two ATM transactions which had wiped out the balance.

I had also not been emailed back by the currency card company. I managed to track down a contact number via Google, and called them. The lady I spoke to was most unhelpful. I told her about the fraud and card retention, and my previous contact, and asked for a new card to be sent. She told me she had locked the card, but would not talk to me as I could not pas security. She was asking me for info from the now gone card, which I obvs could not provide. She then wanted to terminate the call. I insisted this was not good enough service and asked for a manager. She refused to fetch one. I became quite upset and still she refused and insisted on ending the call. She then told me she would get a manager, and then the call terminated. I was not called back. And I also could not afford to make another call and speak to someone else, explaining the situation again.

Anyway. Two weeks later I had all my mail sent to me in Thailand. I then had to wait two weeks for it to clear customs. I picked it up on Monday in Bangkok, on my way to Vietnam. My actual money is almost zero by this point.

There was no replacement card in the package of mail.

I called the company again and complained in the strongest possible terms. The manager I spoke to told me that the previous agent should have advised me that I could send in a copy of my ID in order to pass security and apologised. She informed me that she would email me within 48 hours to confirm the fraud had been reversed. This was after I told her the money was vitally needed and I was worried sick by now.

I planned accordingly, spending the last of my money on flights and accommodation.

48 hours later, and penniless, I got an email from then, to tell me they were sending me a declaration to sign in the next 72 hours so an investigation could take place.

I called again, and the same manager lady I spoke to initially denied her arrangement with me. I then got HER manager on the phone. This lady also initially denied the arrangement. These people were, disgustingly, making ridiculous excuses and trying to dodge their terrible maladministration from start to end.

I ended the call with this horrid woman by telling her I would get all call recordings from my initial call six weeks ago to the one I was currently on, and explained in no uncertain terms the perilous situation I was now in because of all this BS.

The declaration was sent the end of the next day, completed, and returned immediately.

Today, I have received the following:

"The transactions you have disputed were all made with CHIP and PIN. In circumstances where the card has been used to withdraw funds from an ATM via CHIP and PIN there are no chargeback rights on these transactions. This is an industry wide rule and out of our control. Therefore, we are unable to reimburse these transactions. "

This is quite unbelievable, not least because a friend who works for HSBC informs me that I am the victim of ATM fraud where my card has been videocamera-taped and caught by the ATM. Unless the financial institution has reasonable ground to think I am a fraud, they must return the funds ASAP.

Please help me anyone here, I need to know my legal rights.

I will be waiting with bated breath, checking here constantly. Unfortunately, it appears I must return home a month early, and borrow money to change my flight home.

Sorry, but you have been scammed, either at a fake ATM, or one that had been compromised. Not want you wanted to hear. All I can suggest is your parents wire money to you if you need it.

CakeCrusader

Have you contacted your travel insurance company? This does sound like you've been scammed, I'm sorry. The British Consulate can help you to contact your family, they won't be able to give you cash though, your family will need to wire some cash to you; https://www.gov.uk/world/organisations/british-embassy-bangkok

[Deleted User]

And this is why you always take more than one card with you and cash...

CakeCrusader

!!! wrote: »

And this is why you always take more than one card with you and cash...

And never use a cash point, always go into a bank to withdraw funds.

Lizmontague

Thank all of you for your replies.

I will be able to travel home.

I know this has been a scam.

Does anyone know if my card provider is now scamming me?

[Deleted User]

I highly doubt it..

Who is the card provider?

[Deleted User]

Lizmontague wrote: »

Does anyone know if my card provider is now scamming me?

Yes. Everyone knows the answer to that one.

They're not.

chattychappy

But at least enjoy Vietnam, it's my second home.

I miss the place terribly. I haven't been there since last week.

Terry_Towelling

Your card provider is not scamming you but they are hiding shamelessly behind the Chargeback mechanism. The fact there are no Chargeback rights for them to recover the money is irrelevant. If you have been subject to fraud then they have to take that on board and work with it.

The question of whether they have to refund you or not is not connected to the chargeback rules, it is down to their agreement with you and what that agreement says about allegations of fraud.

Yes, it may be that they still don't have to reimburse you if they have reasonable evidence to believe you were negligent, complicit or are lying but the chargeback position has nothing to do with it.

It looks here like you have used a fake ATM that took your card from you and filmed/recorded your PIN keystrokes. If the ATM had been genuine it might have retained your card after 3 unsuccessful PIN attempts but it is clear that never happened because the genuine card was used by the fraudsters after it was retained.

My view, for what it's worth, is that your card was effectively 'stolen' from you. When that happens your issuer will normally expect you to report it as soon as reasonably possible and they will usually only hold you liable for the first £50 of any subsequent use - and often never even that.

The only issues to overcome here, therefore, are the definition of 'stolen' and the use of your PIN to make the transactions on the 'stolen' card. If what you say is true, I don't see how your card provider can reasonably accuse you of being careless or negligent with your PIN and they should refund you without question.

Others may disagree but I'd push this all the way with my card provider if it had happened to me.

eco_warrior

I agree with TT

Push it and take it to FOS if need be.

The bank must think you are lying or negligent but your story points to being scammed. Best of luck.